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  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,915 Senior Member
    I'm sure this will deeply impress the readers of Investors Business Daily. It's class warfare, is what it is! (hmmn, there must be an election campaign going on).
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    And a gazillion other outlets that have picked it up.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,915 Senior Member
    "In the preface of the book, Tax Progressivity and Income Inequality, Professor of Economics Joel Slemrod writes,
    The question of tax progressivity – who should bear the tax burden – has fascinated tax philosophers for over a century, and remains highly controversial... The ultimate answer to this question depends on ethical judgments into which the field of economics offers no insight, but it also depends on some of the bread-and-butter preoccupations of economics, such as the extent and nature of income inequality and the behavioral response of taxpayers to alternative tax systems."

    "The earliest known application of progressive taxation took place in Great Britain in the 14th century. In the United States, the first progressive income tax was established by the Revenue Act of 1862, which was signed into law by President Abraham Lincoln..."

    I will agree the wording would be irritating to someone who had really sacrificed to get rich, but govt. has to be paid for, and its always been done by a progressive schedule.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    CG,

    The question isn't one of progressivity in this instance so really this is only a deflection.

    The issue is that the President apparently believes that by not taking money though taxation, he's giving it away. Logically, it would seem to follow that he thinks the money is the governments...otherwise, how would an extension of the Bush tax cuts, be giving it away?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    It was a temporary tax cut. So yeah it was a give away that did not stimulate the economy.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Let's suppose you were a "millionaire*." By not taking more of your money, would Obama be giving it to you?

    If I cut your tax rate to 20%, am I giving you money?

    *households making over $250,000.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    Yes if, I was expecting the tax break to end as it was supposed to.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,915 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    CG,

    The issue is that the President apparently believes.......
    ....that based on focus groups and polling, this is a good campaign strategy.

    The outrage over this has not reached the hallowed screens of Huffpost yet.......
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    You earned the money, the government didn't take it like they could have, so it gave it to you.

    In fact, the government gives you all your money by not taxing you 100%. It could right? Hence, Obama's logic.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    creekguy wrote: »
    ....that based on focus groups and polling, this is a good campaign strategy.

    Just like "you didn't build that."
  • yataheyyatahey Senior Member Posts: 5,605 Senior Member
    "When the goin gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    yatahey wrote: »

    Shocking, until you realize that something close to 50% of the population doesn't pay income tax.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You earned the money, the government didn't take it like they could have, so it gave it to you.

    In fact, the government gives you all your money by not taxing you 100%. It could right? Hence, Obama's logic.

    Except I had a legal obligation to pay taxes, a built in expense that I used when I bartered for my salary, they reduced it temporarily, a rebate if you will, now the rebate ends.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • yataheyyatahey Senior Member Posts: 5,605 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Shocking, until you realize that something close to 50% of the population doesn't pay income tax.

    Weak deflection. The American people believe the rich should pay more taxes. Period.
    "When the goin gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Actually, you're original point was the deflection. As I already noted to CreekGuy, the question isn't whether we need more progressivity, but that the President thinks that by not taxing somebody, he's giving them money.

    When your taxes were lowered in the 1980s, did the government give you money?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Except I had a legal obligation to pay taxes, a built in expense that I used when I bartered for my salary, they reduced it temporarily, a rebate if you will, now the rebate ends.

    So, the government gave you money? How hard did it work for it again?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    Well let's see, they provided a defense from terrorists, they built a freeway I use to drive to work, they built a school to educate my kids, the provided police protection so that my home or business could not be robbed, they provided a network that I am using to talk to you right now, they provided fire protection and protection from natural disasters, they provided free public land on which I can fish, in some cases they provided the fish, etc... So all in all pretty ****ing hard.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Well let's see, they provided a defense from terrorists, they built a freeway I use to drive to work, they built a school to educate my kids, the provided police protection so that my home or business could not be robbed, they provided a network that I am using to talk to you right now, they provided fire protection and protection from natural disasters, they provided free public land on which I can fish, in some cases they provided the fish, etc... So all in all pretty ****ing hard.

    So by raising your taxes they gave you money?

    Semantics aren't working this time for you. You earned the money, by taking less of it, the government doesn't give it to you, no matter how it spends it.

    Now you may feel that your taxes are well-spent, which is fine, and you may even come out ahead, but that fails to address the point.

    If Obama truly believes that not taxing = giving, then he's way the ef out there on the left.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    If they lower my taxes temporarily, Bush tax cuts, they are giving me money I wouldn't ordinarily have. Is that too hard for you?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Did you ever pass that ESL class?

    Here's math. In December 2010, your brother says, "Chris, put $20 in the kitty for Mom's Christmas gift."
    In December 2011, your brother says, "Chris, this year all we need is $10."

    Did he give you $10?

    No. He. Did. Not.

    Neither does the government when it lowers your tax rate.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    You know watching you discuss this stuff is like watching the women's gymnastics team with less crying.

    What is it about they were supposed to expire you are missing?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Did you ever pass that ESL class?

    Here's math. In December 2010, your brother says, "Chris, put $20 in the kitty for Mom's Christmas gift."
    In December 2011, your brother says, "Chris, this year all we need is $10."

    Did he give you $10?

    No. He. Did. Not.

    Neither does the government when it lowers your tax rate.

    We were charged $77,000 dollars for Ann Romney's horse.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    So did you get to deduct dog food from your taxes?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
    You know watching you discuss this stuff is like watching the women's gymnastics team with less crying.

    And way less spandex.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    I have no idea what he is wearing. Maybe you can see him on skype.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    You know watching you discuss this stuff is like watching the women's gymnastics team with less crying.

    What is it about they were supposed to expire you are missing?



    I understand they were supposed to expire Chris. It. Doesn't. Matter.

    Nobody gave you money, the government took less of what you earned. Are you simply pretending to be obtuse out of boredom?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Hey Buff,

    When the government cuts your taxes, even temporarily, are they giving you money?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,387 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I understand they were supposed to expire Chris. It. Doesn't. Matter.

    Nobody gave you money, the government took less of what you earned. Are you simply pretending to be obtuse out of boredom?

    No I just think you are wasting too much energy on semantics, especially on an issue that is a loser for Romney. 60% or 70%, depending on who is doing the polling, of the voting public believe that those tax cuts should expire.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Hey Buff,

    When the government cuts your taxes, even temporarily, are they giving you money?

    No. They're simply stealing less.

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