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Replies

  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member

    Inquiring minds want to know how much global warming would be caused if we all tuned in and watched all 7 hours

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member

    Okay.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,231 Senior Member

    That’s more hot air than the Amazon burning.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    Not gonna watch that! I care about it a lot, but nothing will ever get done. Even if the Dems win the White & Senate, they would need to abolish the filibuster. Then the next time the R’s are in charge, Fox News will have demagouged the issue to the point where the Teabillys will be piping diesel fumes into their own homes because freedom and Jeebus.

    Hashtag We’refuq’d

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    And not going un-noticed at G7 was DJT's absence at climate change meeting with leaders

    and his answer to a reporter on oil--was the US was going to be #1 in oil production

    Well frack me

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    edited August 28 #7

    Doesn't matter if D's or R's have power. It's climate change. Ain't no amount of money going to save the planet.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member

    Yeah, fugdeirth

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member

    Well it's not like coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear energy are going away anytime soon. Unless you are thinking we go back to horse, buggy and candle power?

    7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,076 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:
    Well it's not like coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear energy are going away anytime soon. Unless you are thinking we go back to horse, buggy and candle power?

    We could do a lot better without having to go back to horse, buggy and candle power. No need for coal. If we need thermal energy to make electricity we can use natural gas, which creates much less greenhouse gases than coal. Nuke is fine in terms of GHG, but uneconomic compared to natural gas. We could use less oil for transportation and still get around without using horses. Electric or hybrid vehicles with the electricity coming from solar and wind. There is little need for oink-mobiles.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:
    Well it's not like coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear energy are going away anytime soon. Unless you are thinking we go back to horse, buggy and candle power?

    7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.

    And if conservatives have their way, it won't go away at all. Well until we enter the next Ice Age.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:
    7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.

    It could be worse. It could be a Trump rally. 7 minutes of that is too much to handle.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    edited August 29 #13

    @Green Mt Boy said:
    We could do a lot better without having to go back to horse, buggy and candle power. No need for coal. If we need thermal energy to make electricity we can use natural gas, which creates much less greenhouse gases than coal. Nuke is fine in terms of GHG, but uneconomic compared to natural gas. We could use less oil for transportation and still get around without using horses. Electric or hybrid vehicles with the electricity coming from solar and wind. There is little need for oink-mobiles.

    Coal is used to generate electricity and it's the cheapest source available and the most abundant at the moment. It isn't going anywhere.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/climate/coal-global-warming.html

    Electric and hybrid vehicles still require energy to make them. Robbing Peter to pay Paul...

    https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits.htm

    It's not as simple as it sounds.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @NZ Indicator said:
    7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.

    It could be worse. It could be a Trump rally. 7 minutes of that is too much to handle.

    True Dat!!!

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,076 Senior Member

    Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member

    NZ, nuclear energy doesn't contribute to CO2 gases. Take it off your list.

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member

    And coal needs to be shut down, like 30 years ago.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    edited September 3 #18

    @Buffco said:
    NZ, nuclear energy doesn't contribute to CO2 gases. Take it off your list.

    Not so fast there sparky...

    Whenever a nuclear plant is built to produce electricity, CO2 is emitted from all of the equipment used to build the plant and all the materials made to built that plant. And then there are the processes for mining and refining uranium ore and making reactor fuel...all of which require large amounts of energy and then more CO2 gasses are emitted.

    Then there is the radioactive waste factor...

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member

    @Green Mt Boy said:
    Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.

    Natural gas emits less CO2...I'll give you that. But still not a panacea.

    Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,076 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:

    Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.

    I hear you, but putting up with stinky people and crying kids is a small price to pay for saving the world.

    Full disclosure: I drive my V-6 Toyota Tacoma that gets around 22 mpg 8 miles to work in Montpelier each weekday with just me in it. There are buses that go from various parts of the state to Montpelier and they get a fair amount of usage but none of them travel the route I have to drive.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    edited September 3 #21

    I'm not sure Trains and busses aren't going to save the world and their use is limited to high population centers where car/trucks/suvs will still dominate the transportation needs of the majority that live in those places.

    My V8 Nissan Titan is getting that kind of gas mileage. Was going to buy a 4runner last year but gas mileage is worse than a full size truck.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member
    edited September 3 #22

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Green Mt Boy said:
    Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.

    Natural gas emits less CO2...I'll give you that. But still not a panacea.

    Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.

    I know but we put up with you anyway.
    :p

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member

    @Green Mt Boy said:

    @NZ Indicator said:

    Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.

    I hear you, but putting up with stinky people and crying kids is a small price to pay for saving the world.

    And not having to deal with traffic, finding parking, and dealing with all the expenses of owning a car. Car payments, insurance, annual repairs etc..... Not to mention guilt free happy hours after work. ;)

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Green Mt Boy said:
    Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.

    Natural gas emits less CO2...I'll give you that. But still not a panacea.

    Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.

    I know but we put up with you anyway.
    :p

    :#:D:D

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    And not having to deal with traffic, finding parking

    Yes I can see that if you live in a high population center. Lucky I live in a place that I don't have to deal with that stuff.

    and dealing with all the expenses of owning a car. Car payments, insurance, annual repairs >>etc.....

    I don't mind all that. The price you pay for freedom to go where you want, when you want.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    Classic Joe K. arguments. It can't be 100% fixed, so let's not even try. Reducto ad Absurdum.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member

    @Shawn C. said:
    Classic Joe K. arguments. It can't be 100% fixed, so let's not even try. Reducto ad Absurdum.

    That's his superhero name.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    edited September 4 #28

    @Shawn C. said:
    Classic Joe K. arguments. It can't be 100% fixed, so let's not even try. Reducto ad Absurdum.

    Just being a realist Shawn about what's possible or impossible. Anything any politician suggests is a "feel good" measure just to say "I tried to do something". People aren't going to change their ways and lifestyles.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/07/climate/world-emissions-paris-goals-not-on-track.html

    http://theconversation.com/why-reducing-carbon-emissions-from-cars-and-trucks-will-be-so-hard-113230

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/were-on-mission-impossible-to-solve-global-warming/2018/10/14/518acff8-ce34-11e8-a360-85875bac0b1f_story.html?noredirect=on

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,422 Senior Member

    Yeah fug your kids and grandkids.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,246 Senior Member
    edited September 4 #30
  • creekyguycreekyguy Posts: 361 Senior Member

    coment made 25 years from now. "Gee, remember the days when the Yellowstone had Cutthroat trout in it, instead of Asian Carp?"

    Its hard to be optomistic. We need the whole species and all developed nations to unite to deal with the problem. It doesn't look good.

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