And...here we go...

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Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    No they are just going to be evicted from their homes. No big deal right? Tomorrow were are relocating you to Sandy, Utah.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,097 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    No they are just going to be evicted from their homes. No big deal right? Tomorrow were are relocating you to Sandy, Utah.

    I'll wage an intifada that makes the crusades look like a wet T-shirt contest.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    You'll like Sandy.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    No they are just going to be evicted from their homes. No big deal right?

    Where'd you come up with that? Nobody said the Arabs living in the West Bank or in Israel would have to move anywhere.

    Mahmoud Abbas might be out of job, but I'm not going to cry a river for that.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    Bull that is the whole point about the Jordanian Citizenship. The Israelis have been trying for decades to steal that land with illegal settlements. In the minds of certain bigots, Netanyahu, Palestine has no right to exist never mind those people have been living there for hundreds of years.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,018 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    @fishingcomic said:
    No they are just going to be evicted from their homes. No big deal right? Tomorrow were are relocating you to Sandy, Utah.

    I'll wage an intifada that makes the crusades look like a wet T-shirt contest.

    I think Sherb is more of a Sugarhouse kind of guy. ;)

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    You know, the beret would go well there.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,018 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    You know, the beret would go well there.

    It really would!

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,003 Senior Member

    Q - What else do you call it when you remove everyone from a certain ethnic group from your territory?

    A - In most American cities it's called "gentrification". It used to be called "urban renewal".

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    Bull that is the whole point about the Jordanian Citizenship. The Israelis have been trying for decades to steal that land with illegal settlements. In the minds of certain bigots, Netanyahu, Palestine has no right to exist never mind those people have been living there for hundreds of years.

    You're making s h i t up you'd like to believe would happen. Under the plan, the Palestinians would be granted Jordanian citizenship, and would be able to move to Jordan....not must move to Jordan. Meanwhile the Arab areas would be under the administration of Jordan, thus protecting the Arab population.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,003 Senior Member

    I wonder if the Jordanians chopped on this, or if it's another Turkey will protect the Kurds pipe dream?

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    @Steven said:

    @fishingcomic said:
    Bull that is the whole point about the Jordanian Citizenship. The Israelis have been trying for decades to steal that land with illegal settlements. In the minds of certain bigots, Netanyahu, Palestine has no right to exist never mind those people have been living there for hundreds of years.

    You're making s h i t up you'd like to believe would happen. Under the plan, the Palestinians would be granted Jordanian citizenship, and would be able to move to Jordan....not must move to Jordan. Meanwhile the Arab areas would be under the administration of Jordan, thus protecting the Arab population.

    No I am not. That is the whole point of the "You know there never was such a thing as Palestine and Palestinians right?" argument. Certain people have denied their right to exist since the 40's and this plan makes it official.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member

    Palestine as commonly understood, included what is now Israel and Jordan. There were Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The League of Nations Mandate basically split Jewish Palestine and Arab Palestine at the Jordan river. So all of the West Bank would have been Israeli.

    In 1947, the UN cut back Israeli territory further and promised an additional Arab state on the West Bank (which would have been much larger than the occupied territories today). Never mind that the U.N. had no right to do this and the Security Council never voted on it, the fact remains that there has never, ever been a separate Arab nation on the West Bank.

    Jordan is a majority Palestinian country - so much so that the PLO tried to take it over repeatedly in the 1960s. There are huge ties between the East Bank and West Bank Palestinians. The Palestinians on the West Bank would be citizens, enfranchised, and still live in their homes. They may not have a country named Palestine, but they'd have just about everything else.

    As George points out: What about the Hashemite Dynasty? Supposedly King Abdullah has already been in talks with the PA about a confederation of two independent countries. What would be the difference if it was a 3-way confederation?

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    Admit it you think that the Israelis are the only ones with a right to exist. Any negotiation that starts from that point is a non-starter.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    @Steven said:
    Palestine as commonly understood, included what is now Israel and Jordan. There were Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The League of Nations Mandate basically split Jewish Palestine and Arab Palestine at the Jordan river. So all of the West Bank would have been Israeli.

    In 1947, the UN cut back Israeli territory further and promised an additional Arab state on the West Bank (which would have been much larger than the occupied territories today). Never mind that the U.N. had no right to do this and the Security Council never voted on it, the fact remains that there has never, ever been a separate Arab nation on the West Bank.

    Jordan is a majority Palestinian country - so much so that the PLO tried to take it over repeatedly in the 1960s. There are huge ties between the East Bank and West Bank Palestinians. The Palestinians on the West Bank would be citizens, enfranchised, and still live in their homes. They may not have a country named Palestine, but they'd have just about everything else.

    As George points out: What about the Hashemite Dynasty? Supposedly King Abdullah has already been in talks with the PA about a confederation of two independent countries. What would be the difference if it was a 3-way confederation?

    What would be the difference if Israel just stopped occupying Palestine and gave the Palestinians autonomy?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,003 Senior Member
    edited January 9 #77

    Here's another fly in the ointment: Although all the Arab states swear undying loyalty to, and blood allegiance with their Palestinian brothers none, repeat none are willing to welcome them as immigrants or refugees; especially Jordan historically.

    That's why Palestinian Refugee Camps were located in crappy areas, fenced and guarded to keep the occupants inside.

    Similarly, have you noticed the decline of vows to drive Israel into the sea from most Arab states? It used to be a running joke that Saudi Arabia would fight Israel unto the death of the last Egyptian. Now they are de facto allies, with the same regional enemies.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    What would be the difference if Israel just stopped occupying Palestine and gave the Palestinians autonomy?

    Three things: First, the Palestinians would be citizens, and maybe someday leaders, of a country that accepts Israel's legitimacy and shares mutual security responsibilities with Israel as Jordan already does.

    Second, Jews could continue to have the right to live in the territories. One of the things that really irks me is the claim that Israel is interested in ethnic cleansing (despite Israeli Arabs having full rights as citizens) while the Palestinians want every Jew out of the West Bank.

    Third, Jordan would have no use for the utterly corrupt Palestinian Authority. The end of rule by the PA would probably be the best thing to happen to the Palestinians.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member
    edited January 9 #79

    So you want them to recognize Israel's right to exist while the Israelis deny them theirs.

    The purpose of stealing land for illegal Israeli settlements is precisely that of driving the Palestinians from the territories.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekyguycreekyguy Posts: 360 Senior Member

    @George K said:

    Although all the Arab states swear undying loyalty to, and blood allegiance with their Palestinian brothers none, repeat none are willing to welcome them as immigrants or refugees; especially Jordan historically.

    In conversations over the years with various Arabs, they never seemed to have an answer for that criticism, or even to have prepared an answer. Its very telling.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,003 Senior Member

    Steven - The only quibble I have with your reply to Chris is the idea that Israeli Arabs have full rights as citizens. Puhleeeeeeze!. They are somewhat like black Americans, equal in theory but very much not in fact. They are perhaps where black Americans were in the late 1960s, if even that.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,249 Senior Member

    Why is the fact they will not welcome them being kicked out of their homes show they do not have solidarity? Wouldn't solidarity mean supporting them living in the land they have lived in for generations?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,003 Senior Member
    edited January 10 #83

    You might pose that question to the multitudes in refugee camps denied entry to various Arab states, rather than here.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 1,553 Senior Member

    @George K said:
    Q - What else do you call it when you remove everyone from a certain ethnic group from your territory?

    A - In large American cities it's called a drive by

    Fixed your answer for you.

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