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Real Working Class Income

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  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,226 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #32

    Nobody is starving and not having the latest iPhone is not living in poverty.

    There may not be high school students working the register during school hours...but I do seem them working the register when they are off in the summer and quite possibly after they graduate.

  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 2,299 Senior Member

    In the history of the world, there have always been poor, middle income and rich. That aint going to change no matter what you do, PERIOD.
    Raise the minimum wage and everyone else's go up as well goods over time and the guy at the bottom is still poor.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,226 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #34

    That's a concept some have trouble understanding. That $2 cheeseburger will eventually cost $5 then you are back to square one

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,227 Senior Member

    I understand it fine. People working for Min Wage are forced to work for Min Wage for all kinds of reasons. Let’s be honest. Nobody actually wants to earn min wage. Yet there are positions that only pay it, and they are fully staffed. The way I see it, raising it is it’s a way to help people in a bad situation get a hand up. If my burger goes up a few dollars, but I’m helping someone who’s actually working for a living to improve their life. Then it’s a win win. On the other hand, I’m not forced to help anyone if I don’t want to. I can decide that $5 for a burger is outrageous and cook my own burger. What they are paying wait staff is even more disturbing. Lots of kids are out there busting their tails waiting tables, dealing with complete idiots, for whatever scraps people feel obligated to hand them. When they get their checks without tips it’s basically a wash after taxes etc. Lots of these people are working a second job to feed a family or trying to pay their way through college. Most of them aren’t lazy unmotivated people.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,226 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Lots of kids are out there busting their tails waiting tables, dealing with complete idiots, for whatever scraps >people feel obligated to hand them.

    Yes. Kids. Thus my previous comment about these jobs should be viewed as temporary in nature for high school / college kids.

    @MikeA said:
    Lots of these people are working a second job to feed a family...

    See that's where I have a problem. If you are working a minimum wage job, then don't go having children unless you have the means to raise them / support them without receiving welfare benefits. Save the welfare benefits for when people fall on hard times.

    @MikeA said:
    trying to pay their way through college. Most of them aren’t lazy unmotivated people.

    Yes. Myself included. I flipped burgers to get me through college in addition to few other cash side jobs here and there. Was enough motivation for me. In all honesty my burger flipping money paid for women, gas, car insurance and beer during those years.

  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 2,299 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    I understand it fine. People working for Min Wage are forced to work for Min Wage for all kinds of reasons. Let’s be honest. Nobody actually wants to earn min wage. Yet there are positions that only pay it, and they are fully staffed. The way I see it, raising it is it’s a way to help people in a bad situation get a hand up. If my burger goes up a few dollars, but I’m helping someone who’s actually working for a living to improve their life. Then it’s a win win. On the other hand, I’m not forced to help anyone if I don’t want to. I can decide that $5 for a burger is outrageous and cook my own burger. What they are paying wait staff is even more disturbing. Lots of kids are out there busting their tails waiting tables, dealing with complete idiots, for whatever scraps people feel obligated to hand them. When they get their checks without tips it’s basically a wash after taxes etc. Lots of these people are working a second job to feed a family or trying to pay their way through college. Most of them aren’t lazy unmotivated people.

    That's one burger in one burger joint. What's it going to do to the cost of our houses? Lots of people work on new houses making minimum wage. When houses go up, so does rent.
    Trust me, EVERTHING is going to go up in price. When it does, that raise you gave them is gone because they are spending more for everything else.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,227 Senior Member

    I can't speak for everywhere, but around here the cost of everything has been skyrocketing up despite the min wage. It's hard for me to defend the min wage being so far below the living wage. That's all I'm saying.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,227 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #39

    After you deduct taxes SS, etc (not insurance) you're left with what, 11,00 a year? Can anyone actually live on that in this day and time?

  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 2,299 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    I can't speak for everywhere, but around here the cost of everything has been skyrocketing up despite the min wage. It's hard for me to defend the min wage being so far below the living wage. That's all I'm saying.

    You have a point there. Minimum wage only seems to go up every few years. Should go up some amount (depending on inflation) every year.
    Where I have a problem is saying it needs to be above poverty level is crazy. Low income in San Francisco is anything under $100K.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,226 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #41

    @MikeA said:
    After you deduct taxes SS, etc (not insurance) you're left with what, 11,00 a year? Can anyone actually live on that in this day and time?

    It's not meant to be lived on. That's why it's called minimum wage and not living wage. Minimum wage jobs are designed to provide an entry into the workforce for unskilled workers.

    Fact: Only ~3% of the workforce in this country earns minimum wage and the majority of them are between the ages of 16 and 24 and are made up of high school and college kids.

    I'm not sure it pays for politicians or anyone for that matter to get bent out of shape about the wages of 3% of the population where the majority of them are going to eventually move on to better paying jobs.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Lots of these people are working a second job to feed a family...

    See that's where I have a problem. If you are working a minimum wage job, then don't go having children unless you have the means to raise them / support them without receiving welfare benefits. Save the welfare benefits for when people fall on hard times.

    Then why support politicians who want to effectively ban easy access to contraceptives? Look, I get what you are saying but people are not always immune to poor decision making. Especially when young.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:

    The guy my daughter married isn't really the sharpest knife in the drawer and was working 2 jobs...the bowling alley rental center...

    Your son-in-law is Saddam Hussein???

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,548 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #44

    @NZ Indicator said:
    Nobody is starving and not having the latest iPhone is not living in poverty.

    There may not be high school students working the register during school hours...but I do seem them working the register when they are off in the summer and quite possibly after they graduate.

    You get that there are literally people that go without a meal in order to pay their rent and their prescriptions, right. Oh I know, nobody you know. So that which does not effect you, does not exist.

    https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-us

    https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/90023/err256_summary.pdf?v=0

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,548 Senior Member

    @CO Native said:
    In the history of the world, there have always been poor, middle income and rich. That aint going to change no matter what you do, PERIOD.
    Raise the minimum wage and everyone else's go up as well goods over time and the guy at the bottom is still poor.

    Raising the minimum wage has never done this.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,548 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:
    That's a concept some have trouble understanding. That $2 cheeseburger will eventually cost $5 then you are back to square one

    Never happens. The cost of labor is only a small percentage of that hamburgers overall cost.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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