Get Out of Here

WetdogWetdog Senior MemberPosts: 5,149 Senior Member

The President spoke with “FOX & Friends” co-host Brian Kilmeade — saying, “You have to stand proudly for the national anthem or you shouldn’t be playing. You shouldn’t be there.”

He added. “Maybe you shouldn’t be in the country.”

Let me see, what was this country founded on.....?

I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
«1

Replies

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,812 Senior Member

    I couldn't believe it when I read that today. The President of the United States actually said that! Craziness...

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,812 Senior Member

    Doug Baldwin of the Seahawks had a great comment.

    “He’s an idiot. Plain and simple,” Baldwin said. “Listen, I respect the man because he’s a human being, first and foremost. But he’s just being more divisive, which is not surprising. It is what it is.
    “For him to say that anybody who doesn’t follow his viewpoints or his constituents’ viewpoints should be kicked out of the country, it’s not very empathetic, it’s not very American-like, actually, to me. It’s not very patriotic,” the two time Pro Bowl wide receiver continued. “It’s not what this country was founded upon. It’s kind of ironic to me that the president of the United States is contradicting what our country is really built on.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/‘he’s-an-idiot’-nfl-players-react-to-trump’s-comments-on-new-anthem-policy/ar-AAxLQ18?ocid=spartanntp

  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 7,970 Senior Member

    Close the concession stands during the anthem, so the beer drinkers can show respect. :wink:

    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,886 Senior Member

    @FishTX said:
    Close the concession stands during the anthem, so the beer drinkers can show respect. :wink:

    Do they have ganja stands at the aptly named Mile High Stadium now that the evil weed is legal in Colorado?

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,871 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #6

    Everybody was all about running westboro church outa town when they started disrespecting vets at their own funeral. Using the anthem as a means of protest isn't much different imo. It's sad.
    That said, I couldnt care less what a bunch of overpaid football players think. I just wish our vets could get the same amount of coverage and empathy as those **** do.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,812 Senior Member

    I think there is a big difference between silently protesting during a song vs. telling someone their son is dead because God hates ****. Huge difference, actually.

    But yeah, our vets get the shaft. Unfortunately, most people would rather **** about a bunch of ******* kneeling during a song than support policies and politicians that would actually try to help wounded vets. Not you, Mike, but too many people.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,871 Senior Member

    Case in point. We celebrate overpaid football players disrespecting vets and write nasty articles about real life patriots. We officially live in weirdo world. At least if you subscribe to the medias narrative.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/05/24/trump-awards-medal-of-honor-to-navy-seal-accused-of-war-crimes/amp/

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,821 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #9

    Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, N*gro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/nfl-flag-conservative-free-speech-hypocrisy/

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,821 Senior Member
  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 1,506 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #11

    @George K said:

    @FishTX said:
    Close the concession stands during the anthem, so the beer drinkers can show respect. :wink:

    Do they have ganja stands at the aptly named Mile High Stadium now that the evil weed is legal in Colorado?

    No, it's BYOMJ - :wink:

    This is a good reason to watch hockey, they all stand.

  • magallowaymagalloway Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Senior Member

    Mike A, are you a vet? I am, and I feel not the least disrespected by kneeling football players. Do I feel that the government's disrespectful treatment of Gulf War returnees is shameful? Bet you sweet donkey's bum that I do. Trump and his ilk can go pound sand.

    Jim

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,886 Senior Member

    This is an excellent piece, rare amidst all the hubris and nonsense.

    Have any of the frothing-at-the-mouthers actually read the U.S. Code regarding the Flag and National Anthem - which are lists of shoulds, not mandates punishable by force of law? For one thing, those who kneel are guilty only of a breach of etiquette. For another, the horizontal display of the giant flag which is sometimes seen is itself a desecration of the flag. Then too, all the "patriots" wearing articles of clothing in which portions of the flag appear also are desecrating that which they claim to respect so much. Those black, white and blue flags also are a desecration, however sincere the thought behind their display may be.

    Here, for your edification and delight (emphasis added):

    "36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem

    (a)Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
    (b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
    (1) when the flag is displayed—
    (A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
    (B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
    (C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
    (2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed."

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

    4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag

    No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
    (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
    (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
    (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
    (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
    (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
    (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
    (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
    (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
    (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. **Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
    (j) **No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform
    . However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
    (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,821 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #14

    @magalloway said:
    Mike A, are you a vet? I am, and I feel not the least disrespected by kneeling football players. Do I feel that the government's disrespectful treatment of Gulf War returnees is shameful? Bet you sweet donkey's bum that I do. Trump and his ilk can go pound sand.

    Jim

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. CK has courage. His stance has cost him dearly, both personally and professionally. And despite my personal disagreements with his politics, THAT is the essence of the American spirit. If that dies, we will die with it.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,821 Senior Member

    Yes, the NFL is a private organization and can do what they want, etc. etc.

    Its not a 1st Amendment issue. Its much bigger than that.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,821 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Case in point. We celebrate overpaid football players disrespecting vets and write nasty articles about real life patriots. We officially live in weirdo world. At least if you subscribe to the medias narrative.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/05/24/trump-awards-medal-of-honor-to-navy-seal-accused-of-war-crimes/amp/

    I don't think he disrespects vets. That's why he takes a knee instead of sitting.

    In what world does the media treat veterans or (God forbid) active duty military badly? All I see is blind hero-worship and jingoistic nonsense. Rah! Put on your infidel T-shirt and OEF hat and watch how many people "treat you badly." Answer: None.

    And yes. . . I already gave at the office, so its easier for me to say these things. Just as its easier for Jim and Shawn. This idea that nothing bad can be said about our military is PC of the right. Its a lot like the. . .NFL protests, actually.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,821 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #17

    Orwell:

    “One rapid but fairly sure guide to the social atmosphere of a country is the parade-step of its army. “A military parade is really a kind of ritual dance, something like a ballet, expressing a certain philosophy of life. “The goose-step, for instance, is one of the most horrible sights in the world, far more terrifying than a dive-bomber. “It is simply an affirmation of naked power; contained in it, quite consciously and intentionally, is the vision of a boot crashing down on a face.

    “Its ugliness is part of its essence, for what it is saying is ‘Yes, I am ugly, and you daren’t laugh at me’, like the bully who makes faces at his victim. “Why is the goose-step not used in England? “There are, heaven knows, plenty of army officers who would be only too glad to introduce some such thing. “It is not used because the people in the street would laugh. “Beyond a certain point, military display is only possible in countries where the common people dare not laugh at the army.”

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,821 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #18

    Double post.

  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    @magalloway said:
    Mike A, are you a vet? I am, and I feel not the least disrespected by kneeling football players. Do I feel that the government's disrespectful treatment of Gulf War returnees is shameful? Bet you sweet donkey's bum that I do. Trump and his ilk can go pound sand.

    Jim

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. CK has courage. His stance has cost him dearly, both personally and professionally. And despite my personal disagreements with his politics, THAT is the essence of the American spirit. If that dies, we will die with it.

    I am in complete agreement with you two....esp that last line of yours sherb. Too many are willing to throw away all that we have achieved for their own desires and prejudices.

    It makes me think that when I had the first seizures at the polls and still voted before they hauled me to the hospital, that I've wasted my time. I don't want to feel like that or live in a country that cares nothing for law, and nothing for free speech, and fee thinking. I can barely watch the news anymore.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,886 Senior Member

    @sherb said:
    Orwell:

    “One rapid but fairly sure guide to the social atmosphere of a country is the parade-step of its army. “A military parade is really a kind of ritual dance, something like a ballet, expressing a certain philosophy of life. “The goose-step, for instance, is one of the most horrible sights in the world, far more terrifying than a dive-bomber. “It is simply an affirmation of naked power; contained in it, quite consciously and intentionally, is the vision of a boot crashing down on a face.

    “Its ugliness is part of its essence, for what it is saying is ‘Yes, I am ugly, and you daren’t laugh at me’, like the bully who makes faces at his victim. “Why is the goose-step not used in England? “There are, heaven knows, plenty of army officers who would be only too glad to introduce some such thing. “It is not used because the people in the street would laugh. “Beyond a certain point, military display is only possible in countries where the common people dare not laugh at the army.”

    This is good.

    My personal axiom always has been that the potential effectiveness of any fighting force is in inverse proportion to the glitter and ribbons on it's uniforms. Until the advent of drone and satellite warfare it's actual effectiveness often could be measured by multiplying the glitter and ribbon factor by the reciprocal of the distance between its field grade officers and the front lines. :)

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,812 Senior Member

    George,
    Yes! If your political leaders wear military uniforms it automatically means your army is a joke.

    Please no posting of “W” on the aircraft carrier. I thank you in advance.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,717 Senior Member

    @Shawn C. said:
    George,
    Yes! If your political leaders wear military uniforms it automatically means your army is a joke.

    Please no posting of “W” on the aircraft carrier. I thank you in advance.

    Yeah I remember That moment

    Dubbya all smiles.........Missionary Demolished....he he he

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,757 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Case in point. We celebrate overpaid football players disrespecting vets and write nasty articles about real life patriots. We officially live in weirdo world. At least if you subscribe to the medias narrative.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/05/24/trump-awards-medal-of-honor-to-navy-seal-accused-of-war-crimes/amp/

    I don't think a Trump supporter gets to talk about respecting war heroes.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,757 Senior Member

    @magalloway said:
    Mike A, are you a vet? I am, and I feel not the least disrespected by kneeling football players. Do I feel that the government's disrespectful treatment of Gulf War returnees is shameful? Bet you sweet donkey's bum that I do. Trump and his ilk can go pound sand.

    Jim

    And if they were kneeling over that, 90% of these people would be behind them. It is not the manner of protest that bothers them, it is what they are protesting.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • magallowaymagalloway Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Senior Member

    I think we're talking at cross purposes, Comic. The players have every right to kneel and protest during the National Anthem as their belief system leads them without Corporal Heel Spur's approval or disapproval. I may well have entwined two issues, and I apologize. I am, however, awfully fed up with peoples' talk of how these actions are 'disrespecting' veterans while a huge flag is being used as a prop.

    Jim

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,886 Senior Member

    Speaking of George Orwell, and changing the subject BTW, the two most realistic and riveting descriptions of physical labor I ever have read are Orwell's scenes of coal mining in "The Road to Wigan Pier", and that of an early Ford assembly line in Jeffrey Eugenides' "Middlesex". Both are highly recommended, Orwell is a far more easy read but Eugenides is worth the effort.

    Anyone read anything to top those?

    (Just trying to revive a dying board, but what I said is 100% sincere and serious.)

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,757 Senior Member

    @magalloway said:
    I think we're talking at cross purposes, Comic. The players have every right to kneel and protest during the National Anthem as their belief system leads them without Corporal Heel Spur's approval or disapproval. I may well have entwined two issues, and I apologize. I am, however, awfully fed up with peoples' talk of how these actions are 'disrespecting' veterans while a huge flag is being used as a prop.

    Jim

    I wasn't disagreeing with your point. I just honestly believe that if they were kneeling to protest the treatment of veterans or heck Obamacare, they would be praised as patriots. It is not the manner of protest that has people's skivvies in a bunch, it is what they are protesting.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,871 Senior Member

    I'm my eyes it's disrespectful. Yes I've heard the same sentiment from other vets wounded warriors. Opinions differ on this just like everything else. The potus didn't make a law. He had an opinion too. Evidently there are enough people who agree it's disrespectful that the NFL is having to take steps now.

    No point in arguing just to argue. Like I said I couldnt care less.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,757 Senior Member

    No point in arguing just to argue. Like I said I couldnt care less.

    This is not truthful.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekyguycreekyguy Posts: 313 Senior Member

    @George K said:
    Speaking of George Orwell, and changing the subject BTW, the two most realistic and riveting descriptions of physical labor I ever have read are Orwell's scenes of coal mining in "The Road to Wigan Pier", and that of an early Ford assembly line in Jeffrey Eugenides' "Middlesex". Both are highly recommended, Orwell is a far more easy read but Eugenides is worth the effort.

    Anyone read anything to top those?

    There is a book by Steven M. Voynick called "Leadville: a Miner's Epic" (Mountain Press publishing co.) It describes the life of miners in that district in the early years. Between the lung disease at 10,000 ft, constant breathing of rock powder, explosives blowing up, rock falls and cave ins, and ropes on elevators commonly breaking, life was pretty good. Best fact: apparent theft of silver (high grading) by miners may have equaled regular mine production. The survivors that left did OK if their lungs still worked.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,362 Senior Member

    While I agree about the hypocrisy of the right, the comparison between Mozilla, Google and the NFL doesn't hold water.

    It's highly doubtful that sales or earnings for either Mozilla or Google would have been affected in these instances. Firings occurred solely because of public shaming.

    On the other hand, it is clear that NFL viewership was negatively affected by the anthem protests.

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