The "Petro"

EdBEdB Senior MemberPosts: 2,845 Senior Member
This is a step in the right direction but it's still money based on fossil fuel energy instead of thin air as the dollar is. At some point it will be realized that there is a limitless abundance of convertible energy from the sun and that a scarcity value system is no longer necessary. Meanwhile, how long will it be before the U.S. invades Venezuela to keep this from happening?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48860.htm

The Venezuelan “Petro” – Towards a New World Reserve Currency?

By Peter Koenig

February 23, 2018 "Information Clearing House" - As this article goes to print, Globovision TV quotes Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro announcing the launch of a new cryptocurrency, the “Petro Oro”. It will be backed by precious metals. The launch of the new cryptomoney is scheduled for the next week. No details of quantities offered for sale are available at this point.

Imagine an international currency backed by energy? By a raw material that the entire world needs, not gold – which has hardly any productive use, but whose value is mostly speculative – not hot air like the US dollar. Not fiat money like the US-dollar and the Euro largely made by private banks without any economic substance whatsoever, and which are coercive. But a currency based on the very source for economic output – energy.

We are talking about a seismic paradigm shift. Its potential is unfathomable. The move away from the US-dollar hegemony might result in an implosion of the western monetary structure as we know it. It may stop the predator empire of the United States in its tracks, by simply decimating her economy of fraud, built on military might, exploitation and colonization of the world, on racism, and on a bulldozing scruple-less killing machine. The Petro, a secured cryptocurrency based on energy that everybody needs, might become the precursor for an international payment and trading scheme towards a more balanced and equitable approach to worldwide socioeconomy development.

Replies

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 2,179 Senior Member
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  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    Who dat, say who dat?
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    Ah, just what I'm looking for: to have my retirement fund guaranteed by a person of unquestioned honesty and competence like Maduro within a country of great stability like Venezuela!
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 4,713 Senior Member
    Sherb said it best
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,827 Senior Member
    How many Petros for a loaf of non-existent bread in Venezuela?
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 4,713 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    How many Petros for a loaf of non-existent bread in Venezuela?

    But you can trust it. It says it’s backed by precious metals (or possib-lie) petroleum.

    Ed are you trading in your dollars for this?
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Sherb said it best

    What did he say?
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,288 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    We are talking about a seismic paradigm shift. Its potential is unfathomable. The move away from the US-dollar hegemony might result in an implosion of the western monetary structure as we know it. It may stop the predator empire of the United States in its tracks, by simply decimating her economy of fraud, built on military might, exploitation and colonization of the world, on racism, and on a bulldozing scruple-less killing machine. The Petro, a secured cryptocurrency based on energy that everybody needs, might become the precursor for an international payment and trading scheme towards a more balanced and equitable approach to worldwide socioeconomy development.

    4ad94ce74a1bcb7a5c61f642d8cdf678--emoticon-emoji.jpg
    Seriously Ed...What drugs are you taking that you actually believe this crap?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    It's not a bad idea from Maduro as he tries to circumvent the financial sanctions facing his government, but it's pretty much doomed to, if not failure, at least irrelevancy. No invasion necessary.

    First, I may have more precious metals in my molars than Venezuela has in its vaults. They have very little to back a currency.

    Second, while Venezuela has a humongous amount of proven reserves (I think maybe even more than Saudi Arabia), it can't get enough oil out of the ground to back a currency. If it could get enough out, the country wouldn't be in the dire straits it's in.

    Venezuela is just another failed experiment in socialism. The laws of economics are immutable, and the Petro isn't going to bail the country out.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    This isn't a crypto-currency. It's a future priced in yuan.

    I'll agree with Shedlock on this. Oil might be priced in yuan, but I think it unlikely that a heavily government controlled currency will get reserve status.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,827 Senior Member
    The dollar is not the world's trading and reserve currency because we imported a lot of oil. It was because it was the only currency anyone had faith in after WW II. That's no longer the case, but an argument that starts off so wrong is hard to take seriously.

    And as Steven pointed out, this just a futures contract priced in Yuan.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    The Petro yuan will be backed by gold so people who trade oil will not have to do it in dollars. This could cause inflation and higher interest rates in the U.S.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,827 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    The Petro yuan will be backed by gold so people who trade oil will not have to do it in dollars. This could cause inflation and higher interest rates in the U.S.

    What gold? The amount they have will not go very far in backing a new world trading currency.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/gold-reserves
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    That looks like it's about Venezuela. China's been building gold hoards.

    Maybe China can make it work, maybe not. The fact that China will allow convertibility of the contracts into gold speaks to the fact that nobody trusts the yuan. Why should they?

    This was the news from last week.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/chinese-regulator-seizes-control-of-anbang-insurance-group-with-its-chairman-prosecuted-for-economic-crimes.html

    Anbang tried to buy troubled insurer Genworth, but was stopped by state insurance regulators in New York, Virginia and Delaware. Nobody could even figure out who owned Anbang, yet it grew like topsy and even had Chinese government financial support.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    What gold? The amount they have will not go very far in backing a new world trading currency.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/gold-reserves

    If the Petro yuan takes hold, the price of gold will skyrocket so not as much gold will be necessary.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    That looks like it's about Venezuela. China's been building gold hordes.

    Maybe China can make it work, maybe not. The fact that China will allow convertibility of the contracts into gold speaks to the fact that nobody trusts the yuan. Why should they?

    This was the news from last week.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/chinese-regulator-seizes-control-of-anbang-insurance-group-with-its-chairman-prosecuted-for-economic-crimes.html

    Anbang tried to buy troubled insurer Genworth, but was stopped by state insurance regulators in New York, Virginia and Delaware. Nobody could even figure out who owned Anbang, yet it grew like topsy and even had Chinese government financial support.


    The dollar is not backed by gold, if the yuan is and Petro contracts can be converted to gold, nobody will trust the dollar.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    Why will the price of gold skyrocket if the yuan is fixed to gold?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    The dollar is not backed by gold, if the yuan is and Petro contracts can be converted to gold, nobody will trust the dollar.


    This, is truly, nonsense.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    Why are you rooting for inflation and failure of the dollar, Ed?

    A gold-backed currency isn't what you want and would likely lead to more rationing rather than less.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Why are you rooting for inflation and failure of the dollar, Ed?

    A gold-backed currency isn't what you want and would likely lead to more rationing rather than less.


    Because I want the money system to end and be replaced with an energy system.

    Rationing will not be necessary if an energy system is implemented, scarcity and price will no longer exist.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    I realize that according to Technocracy Inc., that scarcity will no longer exist if we convert to a solar-based energy currency system.

    Be that as it may, the petro-yuan is not energy based, but gold-based. And a gold-based currency system necessarily entails rationing. If the economy of a nation with a gold-backed currency becomes too strong (like ours was in the 1960s), imports increase and gold flows out. As gold flows out, the country's central bank needs to cut the supply of currency.

    MV = PQ.

    If the money supply (M) falls and the velocity of money (V) stays the same, than either/both Price (P) falls (deflation) or GDP falls (deflation). Do the means justify the ends? You willing to have your countrymen hurt to accomplish your goal?

    More to the point, if the yuan were to be established as the world's number 1 currency, what makes you think a Chinese government inimical to the market is going to allow a different money system? Better to allow the free market. If technocracy is right, your vision will develop on its own.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 2,179 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Why are you rooting for inflation and failure of the dollar, Ed?

    A gold-backed currency isn't what you want and would likely lead to more rationing rather than less.

    This is the thing. Steven noticed it, and I'm noticing it too. There's a bite to your posts, Ed. I hate to assume bad faith, but are you actually rooting for our country-mine AND yours-to fail?
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    This is the thing. Steven noticed it, and I'm noticing it too. There's a bite to your posts, Ed. I hate to assume bad faith, but are you actually rooting for our country-mine AND yours-to fail?

    No, I don't want our country to fail. On the contrary, I want it to have a much higher standard of living than exists in the money system. If you understood Technocracy, you would not ask that question. The failure of the money system is going to happen, if we can recognise that and plan ahead to implement an energy system, the transition will be less painful lthan pretending the money system will last forever. The latter invites catastrophe for my country and is why I try my best to prevent that from happening.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    I don't know.

    I get that you think the establishment of a gold based standard compared to "fiat" money "backed by nothing but thin air" will lead painlessly to your desired destination, but rooting for the petro-yuan to displace the dollar isn't the way.

    Reminds me of the "dictatorship of the proletariat." The Chinese government hasn't yielded its power to that either.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,845 Senior Member
    I'm not rooting for the Petro yuan, just pointing out what is happening in the money system. I know people don't want to hear it.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,285 Senior Member
    Ok. But what is happening is very much on the fringe and probably not very good examples of the money system's impending doom.

    Crypto currency is interesting but also just fiat money created out of thin air.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    all my moneys on Yap island

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbVe_Zngb-HBYsLx0BL9ixI_3K4L7vLbYa-ZMJKptRUm9fHuaHHA
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,827 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    That looks like it's about Venezuela.

    My mistake. I was thinking of Venezuela's crypto Petro. China has more than enough gold to cover Yuan denominated futures trading, but not nearly enough to make the state-regulated Yuan the world's reserve and standard trading currency. See the chart I linked to above.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,827 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Because I want the money system to end and be replaced with an energy system.

    Rationing will not be necessary if an energy system is implemented, scarcity and price will no longer exist.


    And lo, human nature will change. There will be no hoarding, cornering the energy credit market or speculation and overhead pigs shall fly.

    For sure.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.

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