Mueller Busts the Russians

Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior MemberPosts: 982 Senior Member
Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals over 2016 election interference

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/mueller-russia-indictments-election-interference/index.html

I wonder if another shoe will drop.

But, in the meantime, this is true (from WaPo):

This confirms just how massive an abdication Trump’s continued claims of a “hoax” really are. Trump has not simply dismissed the idea of Trump campaign conspiracy with Russian sabotage of our democracy. On many occasions, he has refused to acknowledge that Russian meddling happened at all.

This failure on Trump’s part isn’t merely retrospective. It is having serious consequences right now. In a big expose, The Post recently reported that Trump’s refusal to acknowledge Russian meddling is directly linked to his unwillingness to diminish the greatness of his victory. As a result, the Post story detailed, Trump has utterly failed to organize a serious national response to the threat of Russian sabotage of our next elections, even though intelligence officials continue to warn that it may already be in the works.

This new indictment, by illustrating the seriousness and elaborate nature of the alleged scheme to undermine our last election, underscores what a huge abdication this really is.

“Putting aside whether or not any Trump campaign individuals were involved, and understanding that these are of course just allegations, this certainly puts to rest any suggestion that there was not Russian interference in the election,” Eliason says. “The allegations in this indictment show just how extensive and intensive it was. It’s startling. We’ve never seen anything like this.”

Replies

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member
    Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals over 2016 election interference

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/mueller-russia-indictments-election-interference/index.html

    I wonder if another shoe will drop.

    But, in the meantime, this is true (from WaPo):

    This confirms just how massive an abdication Trump’s continued claims of a “hoax” really are. Trump has not simply dismissed the idea of Trump campaign conspiracy with Russian sabotage of our democracy. On many occasions, he has refused to acknowledge that Russian meddling happened at all.

    This failure on Trump’s part isn’t merely retrospective. It is having serious consequences right now. In a big expose, The Post recently reported that Trump’s refusal to acknowledge Russian meddling is directly linked to his unwillingness to diminish the greatness of his victory. As a result, the Post story detailed, Trump has utterly failed to organize a serious national response to the threat of Russian sabotage of our next elections, even though intelligence officials continue to warn that it may already be in the works.

    This new indictment, by illustrating the seriousness and elaborate nature of the alleged scheme to undermine our last election, underscores what a huge abdication this really is.

    “Putting aside whether or not any Trump campaign individuals were involved, and understanding that these are of course just allegations, this certainly puts to rest any suggestion that there was not Russian interference in the election,” Eliason says. “The allegations in this indictment show just how extensive and intensive it was. It’s startling. We’ve never seen anything like this.”

    The narrative they have been foaming at the mouth over for more than a year completely falls apart, and somehow they still make it Trumps fault. LOL.

    Lemmings+at+the+cliff.jpg
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
    That's right, Mike, more fake news, just like the Great Leader says.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 982 Senior Member
    The narrative is that Trump has loudly and consistently denied the Russians tried to influence the election in his favor. Yes, it probably didn't affect the outcome, but it happened and it will forever be a stain on his Presidency. The fact a foreign power, especially a hostile one tried to influence our election is something that shouldn't be blown off. You also have to wonder why the Russians favored him.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,795 Senior Member
    Quotes from Dear Leader;

    "He said he didn't meddle. He said he didn't meddle," Trump told reporters from Air Force One. "I asked him again. You can only ask so many times. I just asked him again. He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election. He did not do what they are saying he did."

    "Every time he sees me he says, 'I didn't do that,' and I believe, I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it. But he says, 'I didn't do that.' I think he is very insulted by it, which is not a good thing for our country."
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
    They're still at it.

    As the news broke of a school shooting in Parkland, Fla., on Wednesday, hundreds of Twitter accounts believed to be under Russian sway pivoted.

    Many had been tweeting about places like Syria and Ukraine — countries where Russia is seeking to strengthen its influence. Suddenly the accounts shifted to hashtags like #guncontrol, #guncontrolnow and #gunreformnow. Tweets mentioning Nikolas Cruz, the name of the shooting suspect, spiked

    For Bret Schafer, an analyst with Hamilton 68, a site tracking Russian influence on Twitter, the pattern is becoming all too familiar. Hamilton 68 follows 600 accounts run by the Russian government, Russian trolls, bots and individuals sympathetic to the Russian point of view. Data collected by the site over the past few months suggests that Russian social media accounts are now regularly seizing on divisive or tragic news to rile up segments of American society...

    ...Schafer says that the Russian accounts his organization tracks now follow a well-worn path. First, he says, they tweet out news and breaking developments. This helps them to gain attention and attract new followers. Then they begin tweeting highly inflammatory material to fan the flames of partisanship.

    Finally, Schafer says, the accounts shift to conspiracy theories. "They build this narrative of, 'You are being lied to by the government, by the media, by everyone else, so don't trust anyone or anything,' " he says. "It's not just divisive, there's an erosion quality to it as well — of eroding trust."

    By Friday morning, new hashtags surged on the network tracked by Hamilton 68. They included #fbicorrpution and #falseflag.


    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/16/586361956/as-an-american-tragedy-unfolds-russian-agents-sow-discord-online
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,878 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    They're still at it.

    As the news broke of a school shooting in Parkland, Fla., on Wednesday, hundreds of Twitter accounts believed to be under Russian sway pivoted.

    Many had been tweeting about places like Syria and Ukraine — countries where Russia is seeking to strengthen its influence. Suddenly the accounts shifted to hashtags like #guncontrol, #guncontrolnow and #gunreformnow. Tweets mentioning Nikolas Cruz, the name of the shooting suspect, spiked

    For Bret Schafer, an analyst with Hamilton 68, a site tracking Russian influence on Twitter, the pattern is becoming all too familiar. Hamilton 68 follows 600 accounts run by the Russian government, Russian trolls, bots and individuals sympathetic to the Russian point of view. Data collected by the site over the past few months suggests that Russian social media accounts are now regularly seizing on divisive or tragic news to rile up segments of American society...

    Schafer says that the Russian accounts his organization tracks now follow a well-worn path. First, he says, they tweet out news and breaking developments. This helps them to gain attention and attract new followers. Then they begin tweeting highly inflammatory material to fan the flames of partisanship.

    Finally, Schafer says, the accounts shift to conspiracy theories. "They build this narrative of, 'You are being lied to by the government, by the media, by everyone else, so don't trust anyone or anything,' " he says. "It's not just divisive, there's an erosion quality to it as well — of eroding trust."

    By Friday morning, new hashtags surged on the network tracked by Hamilton 68. They included #fbicorrpution and #falseflag.


    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/16/586361956/as-an-american-tragedy-unfolds-russian-agents-sow-discord-online

    I can't figure out why part of us won't even consider the idea that Russia has meddled, I just don't get it.

    Ostrich-man-head-in-sand-450x300.gif

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,714 Senior Member
    This doesn't mean that collusion didn't happen. But it does prove that interference did and it was about destroying Hillary.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/16/17021248/russian-election-interference-sanders-stein-trump
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,714 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    The narrative they have been foaming at the mouth over for more than a year completely falls apart, and somehow they still make it Trumps fault. LOL.

    Lemmings+at+the+cliff.jpg

    In what way is it falling apart.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,795 Senior Member
    13 is a lot of indictments over nothing.
    Maybe the lawyers among us can comment on that? Is that an unusually high number of indictments where absolutely no evidence of a crime is present. Seems high for being made up fake news but I’m not a lawyer.

    /sarcasm
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,927 Senior Member
    The U.S. has been interfering in foreign elections for decades, it's the way the political game is played.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html?smid=tw-share

    “We’ve been doing this kind of thing since the C.I.A. was created in 1947,” said Mr. Johnson, now at the University of Georgia.

    The United States’ departure from democratic ideals sometimes went much further. The C.I.A. helped overthrow elected leaders in Iran and Guatemala in the 1950s and backed violent coups in several other countries in the 1960s. It plotted assassinations and supported brutal anti-Communist governments in Latin America, Africa and Asia.

    A Carnegie Mellon scholar, Dov H. Levin, has scoured the historical record for both overt and covert election influence operations. He found 81 by the United States and 36 by the Soviet Union or Russia between 1946 and 2000, though the Russian count is undoubtedly incomplete.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    This is actually true. It does reflect the bias of the of the US press. However, a guy named Gates is about to spill the beans (probably) on the money laundering by Manafort, which will probably get rather hot for Trump enterprises.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    This is actually true. It does reflect the bias of the of the US press. However, a guy named Gates is about to spill the beans (probably) on the money laundering by Manafort, which will probably get rather hot for Trump enterprises.

    Oh boy! Sounds like they almost got him this time!!!
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member
    Long but very interesting read.
    "I spent many months assuring people that nothing like this could ever happen — that the FBI and Justice Department would not countenance the provision to the FISA court of uncorroborated allegations of heinous misconduct. When Trump enthusiasts accused them of rigging the process, I countered that they probably had not even used the Steele dossier. If the Justice Department had used it in writing a FISA warrant application, I insisted that the FBI would independently verify any important facts presented to the court, make any disclosures that ought in fairness be made so the judge could evaluate the credibility of the sources, and compellingly demonstrate probable cause before alleging that an American was a foreign agent.

    I was wrong."

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/grassley-graham-memo-affirms-nunes-memo-fisa-steele-dossier/

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