OK, My statue Stance Justified

BushartBushart Senior MemberPosts: 2,812 Senior Member
From the onset of this latest crusade--my stance on statue removal has been consistent---leave them there and use them to open the conversation

So two nights ago on "The Daily Show"--Trevor Noah interviews an author who has recorded American public lynchings and their locales.
Noah asks if this is not too painful a subject to re-visit?

The author says No--awareness is good to get beyond this---Then he says

You cannot be in Rwanda for a day without hearing of the genocide
In Germany there are markers identifying the holocaust

All to remember the history taken place and learn from it
So that's one

In my own country---a group of unionized teachers wanted the name of our 1st Prime Minister removed from schools for his part in residential schools

2 days later--Our Premier says No---Use it as a teaching moment
That's 2

Closing your eyes does'nt make something go away---I know the white guys Supreme are using it as a rallying point---but when the statues are gone and they are still there---likely they'll just choose another symbol

Ok I'm dun
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Replies

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,012 Senior Member
    Truth be told I don't care one bit if the statues stay in place. I get that they reflect a piece of our history. But, I will say that I doubt one will find a statue of, say, Heinrich Himmler, anywhere in Germany.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,812 Senior Member
    Truth be told I don't care one bit if the statues stay in place. I get that they reflect a piece of our history. But, I will say that I doubt one will find a statue of, say, Heinrich Himmler, anywhere in Germany.

    I agree---but i bet his name gets brought into the history lesson when the sites are discussed

    Also I wonder if many descendants of the 7th visit this site on American soil https://crazyhorsememorial.org/2016.html (Note---still not a fan of Custer--or his mission)

    Hard to re-write history--- and the ones that try---have an agenda for tomorrow
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    From the onset of this latest crusade--my stance on statue removal has been consistent---leave them there and use them to open the conversation

    So two nights ago on "The Daily Show"--Trevor Noah interviews an author who has recorded American public lynchings and their locales.
    Noah asks if this is not too painful a subject to re-visit?

    The author says No--awareness is good to get beyond this---Then he says

    You cannot be in Rwanda for a day without hearing of the genocide
    In Germany there are markers identifying the holocaust

    All to remember the history taken place and learn from it
    So that's one

    In my own country---a group of unionized teachers wanted the name of our 1st Prime Minister removed from schools for his part in residential schools

    2 days later--Our Premier says No---Use it as a teaching moment
    That's 2

    Closing your eyes does'nt make something go away---I know the white guys Supreme are using it as a rallying point---but when the statues are gone and they are still there---likely they'll just choose another symbol

    Ok I'm dun

    This would be more justified if the statue of General Forest showed him holding a noose. But it doesn't, it depicts him as a conquering hero.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,078 Senior Member
    So why all of sudden are these statues etc. offensive when they have been there for years?

    I mean really...who wakes up one day and all of sudden is offended by a Robert E. Lee statue that has been there for years?

    Strange society we live in these days.


    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    They have been always been offensive. Just nobody gave a **** what black people thought when they erected them.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,858 Senior Member
    They have been always been offensive. Just nobody gave a **** what black people thought when they erected them.

    Joe, This^^^ This x100. Is this really a difficult concept?
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,888 Senior Member
    They have been always been offensive. Just nobody gave a **** what black people thought when they erected them.

    Yeah, but why now? Why do they have to come down now? Don't get me wrong: you can raze these monuments, salt the earth and erect Anne Frank memorials for all I care. I'm just wondering about the timing.

    Incidentally, and this is where it gets dicey, a strong plurality of all races are fine with the confederate monuments, including black people. recent polling showed that 44% of blacks thought they should stay and 40% thought they should go. The numbers go up with Whites.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    Because public opinion on the matter has finally moved into the right direction. People are finally beginning to care what black people think. BTW the polling at the beginning of the Gay Marriage issue was much lower when that debate began. Not to mention the only polling I can find on the issue seems to be coming from conservative news sites, so I don't know how accurate they are. I do know that the statues in Baltimore were removed after a vote, a more accurate poll than The Blaze.

    No matter when this happened someone would be saying "why now?"
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,921 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Yeah, but why now? Why do they have to come down now? Don't get me wrong: you can raze these monuments, salt the earth and erect Anne Frank memorials for all I care. I'm just wondering about the timing.

    Incidentally, and this is where it gets dicey, a strong plurality of all races are fine with the confederate monuments, including black people. recent polling showed that 44% of blacks thought they should stay and 40% thought they should go. The numbers go up with Whites.

    Because there is money, plenty of money behind this now. This is the face of the new left. If you can't beat them, start a internal war. I can't wait till the minorities get woke and realize who has been holding their chains all theses years. Detroit, Chicago, Memphis. Not republican country. No sir.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,921 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Joe, This^^^ This x100. Is this really a difficult concept?

    Yes. It's difficult to understand why they stood for 8 years under Obama and now after the defeat of the liberal movement by a white dude,,, suddenly it's all about race again.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    This debate began before Obama.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,888 Senior Member
    No matter when this happened someone would be saying "why now?"

    Well that's certainly true. But its also true that there has been a definite shift in language, a change in tone. For instance, we used to use the term structural or institutional racism, whereas now the preferred term is "white supremacy." Something has changed, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Its probably, as MikeA says, a revitalized, assertive left coupled with widespread revulsion over a newly energized neo-**** movement. Anything that can be done to deny them legitimacy, including taking down their icons, becomes more acceptable by default.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,921 Senior Member
    This nothing more than paid outage and political strategy. Using black peoples horrible history to score political points against the potus. Disgusting.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    Well I would agree that many of those opposed to taking down these statues have done little to gain public support for their position.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    This nothing more than paid outage and political strategy. Using black peoples horrible history to score political points against the potus. Disgusting.

    I love the infantilism of black people. Like obviously they are being manipulated, they cannot possibly have developed an opinion on this issue over the decades.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    Question: has this event anything to do with money raising for the left and right?
    BTW, I personally will ensure that the best and right action is taken on this issue. Forward your donations to "Creekguy Will Fix It" and you will soon be able to have the satisfaction of having helped!
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,078 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Yeah, but why now? Why do they have to come down now?.

    ^^^This. That's where I am at. All these years and now all of sudden 2017 arrives and they need to come down?



    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,078 Senior Member
    Because public opinion on the matter has finally moved into the right direction. People are finally beginning to care what black people think. BTW the polling at the beginning of the Gay Marriage issue was much lower when that debate began. Not to mention the only polling I can find on the issue seems to be coming from conservative news sites, so I don't know how accurate they are. I do know that the statues in Baltimore were removed after a vote, a more accurate poll than The Blaze.

    No matter when this happened someone would be saying "why now?"
    So does this mean that after all the statues come down the lives of black people will improve?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    That is the stupidest question on this board and that is saying something

    If they remove them will your life be ruined?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,812 Senior Member
    Well there likely will never be agreement on this issue

    It just seems that if they are removed---it did'nt happen

    Unless you hope the conversation takes place with uninterested history class high school students
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,078 Senior Member
    That is the stupidest question on this board and that is saying something

    If they remove them will your life be ruined?
    No its not. The premise behind all this is that if they are removed black people's lives will somehow be better. Because somehow their lives are bad now or that they are offended because they exist.

    Whatever....safe spaces I guess.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    No that is not the premise. The premise is, we should stop honoring traitors that wanted to keep them enslaved. Those statues were placed there by white people that did want to put them in their place. So the idea behind erecting them was to offend African-American citizens.

    So why is it so important to you that they stay?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Well there likely will never be agreement on this issue

    It just seems that if they are removed---it did'nt happen

    Unless you hope the conversation takes place with uninterested history class high school students

    Really? Removing the statues erases the existence of the Civil War? If you remove them however, maybe people will stop remembering those traitors as heroes.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,921 Senior Member
    Take a scroll through these images Chris. This is the kind of people behind this movement. This is the kind of complete disrespect for families of vets that will create an environment that will not end well.

    https://www.facebook.com/44thNYSVI/posts/1085231261610834
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,921 Senior Member
    Anyone who looks at the damage done to these cemetery's and thinks it progress, is a disgusting person.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    William Bedford Forest is not a vet, he is a terrorist.


    There were 12 people burning that flag, there were more people carrying swastikas, those are the kind of people behind your movement.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    Anyone who looks at the damage done to these cemetery's and thinks it progress, is a disgusting person.

    I have no problem calling a racist a racist.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,921 Senior Member
    My movement took the morning train down PVC lane. I'm an American. I respect the choice of the people, whether I like it or not.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,894 Senior Member
    Well in many of these instances it has been the choice of the people to remove these reminders and celebration of a White Supremist past.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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