Incidentally, in true Marine Corps fashion, train with an M14, go to Vietnam and get an M16. Makes a lot of sense.
This was standard procedure for all services. I trained on the M14, was sent to Germany for a year where the M14 was standard-issue because of its range and accuracy, then was sent to Nam. I never touched an M-16 until two days after I reached my assigned unit there, didn't fire it for another three days. When all was said and done, I would have much rather kept the M-14--much more accurate, far less prone to jams, far easier to maintain. I had absolutely no need for a weapon that had full-automatic capability, and certainly one that often wouldn't finish a magazine without jamming.
This was standard procedure for all services. I trained on the M14, was sent to Germany for a year where the M14 was standard-issue because of its range and accuracy, then was sent to Nam. I never touched an M-16 until two days after I reached my assigned unit there, didn't fire it for another three days. When all was said and done, I would have much rather kept the M-14--much more accurate, far less prone to jams, far easier to maintain. I had absolutely no need for a weapon that had full-automatic capability, and certainly one that often wouldn't finish a magazine without jamming.
This was standard procedure for all services. I trained on the M14, was sent to Germany for a year where the M14 was standard-issue because of its range and accuracy, then was sent to Nam. I never touched an M-16 until two days after I reached my assigned unit there, didn't fire it for another three days. When all was said and done, I would have much rather kept the M-14--much more accurate, far less prone to jams, far easier to maintain. I had absolutely no need for a weapon that had full-automatic capability, and certainly one that often wouldn't finish a magazine without jamming.
Jim
If you were humping through the paddies, it was nice to carry M 16 ammo rather than M 14 because you could carry twice as many rounds, which was important. And the 16 was lighter. Accuracy at more than 30 m usually wasn't that necessary either because of visibility or because most skirmishes were at night. I trained with the 14 at Ft. Ord, and was glad we carried the 16. Most of the jamming issues were gone by 1970, just keep it clean.
We erudite gun owners have one John Moses Browning, peace be upon him, as our patron saint of firearms.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Maybe you should credit the German Fritz Haber, who invented the method to mass produce explosives and Nitrate gunpowder, and also suggested the German army use chlorine gas on the WW1 battlefields. What a God!
If you were humping through the paddies, it was nice to carry M 16 ammo rather than M 14 because you could carry twice as many rounds, which was important. And the 16 was lighter. Accuracy at more than 30 m usually wasn't that necessary either because of visibility or because most skirmishes were at night. I trained with the 14 at Ft. Ord, and was glad we carried the 16. Most of the jamming issues were gone by 1970, just keep it clean.
If you were at Fort Ord, then you remember the worst sin a 'cruit could commit, I'm sure, stepping on the ice plant. Were they still staving off encephalitis by inducing pneumonia by the time you were there?
I agree with the ammo-weight issues, but 'keeping it clean' was a joke when the weapon itself had a self-fouling/pitting chamber and the ammo was corrosive because DOD wouldn't specify the correct powder and was too cheap to anneal the brass. You could clean your weapon, along with magazines and ammo, 'til your hands blistered, but the damned thing still jammed. I was very much a commo/crypto-center REMF unless the Colonel decided to send a radioteletype rig out to an shithole artillery firebase (don't ask me why, he did sometimes,) and I can't imagine to this day having to hump an M-16 in the bush; you have my admiration.
1. Add a selector switch and the M-14 becomes fully automatic, although it still is a lot heavier than an M16.
2. Many of the M-16 jamming problems could be resolved by the application of DrySlide, although daily take down and cleaning still was the best option.
I was issued an M-14 in Viet Nam but managed to personally acquire and keep, by hook and crook, an AR-15 Commando as a personal weapon. DrySlide was messy but worked. While the Army and Marines denied there was a problem with the AR-16, the company would send it to GIs for free upon request. Eventually DOD found some sort of lithium grease that solved the jamming issue, but the DrySlide company that saved many lives got screwed as I recall.
The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
The cold foggy mornings at Ord were incredibly nasty.
It should be said that a lot of jamming issues on the 16 were the result of failure to clean the 10 round clips (can we still call them magazines?). When issued they were typically rusted and dirty inside, causing failure to feed or double feed. I cleaned them regularly. (A lot of gun wackos haven't figured out that giant banana clips, while looking kool, increase the chance of jams.)
I do need to say that I was mostly a radio operator in the bunker, with 3 months of stalking around at night with a sniper team without ever getting into a firefight. Interestingly, our snipers, usually 2 in a 5 man team, used modified m-14s with special ammo and a zeroed starlight scope mounted on top. Unwieldy, but yes, very accurate. But firing any rifle at night, particularly on auto, would light up you position like a searchlight. Just call in a gunship with night vision stuff.
I too trained on the M14 and was issued an M16. Whilst in a bunker in a free fire zone the M16 was hanging above my head and was struck 3 times ripping it a new one. When I was relieved the next day, thankful of having an M30, 12 Law's and a box of M79 grenades and the M79 Launcher I traded the POS M16 in for an M14 which I completed my tour with.
My JMB is LL Dickerson tied with EW Edwards.
banjo
I had the opportunity to buy my M14 before coming home for $96 after they removed the Bullwinkle switch, what we called the selector switch because it was similar to a moose antler, but silly me didn't.
Replies
I think the USMC is phasing out the SAW to go to the M27 Individal Automatic Rifle?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle
I loved the SAW. My favorite.
This was standard procedure for all services. I trained on the M14, was sent to Germany for a year where the M14 was standard-issue because of its range and accuracy, then was sent to Nam. I never touched an M-16 until two days after I reached my assigned unit there, didn't fire it for another three days. When all was said and done, I would have much rather kept the M-14--much more accurate, far less prone to jams, far easier to maintain. I had absolutely no need for a weapon that had full-automatic capability, and certainly one that often wouldn't finish a magazine without jamming.
Jim
Welcome to Auto----#1 reason I don't own one
Mike
Maybe you should credit the German Fritz Haber, who invented the method to mass produce explosives and Nitrate gunpowder, and also suggested the German army use chlorine gas on the WW1 battlefields. What a God!
If you were at Fort Ord, then you remember the worst sin a 'cruit could commit, I'm sure, stepping on the ice plant. Were they still staving off encephalitis by inducing pneumonia by the time you were there?
I agree with the ammo-weight issues, but 'keeping it clean' was a joke when the weapon itself had a self-fouling/pitting chamber and the ammo was corrosive because DOD wouldn't specify the correct powder and was too cheap to anneal the brass. You could clean your weapon, along with magazines and ammo, 'til your hands blistered, but the damned thing still jammed. I was very much a commo/crypto-center REMF unless the Colonel decided to send a radioteletype rig out to an shithole artillery firebase (don't ask me why, he did sometimes,) and I can't imagine to this day having to hump an M-16 in the bush; you have my admiration.
Jim
1. Add a selector switch and the M-14 becomes fully automatic, although it still is a lot heavier than an M16.
2. Many of the M-16 jamming problems could be resolved by the application of DrySlide, although daily take down and cleaning still was the best option.
I was issued an M-14 in Viet Nam but managed to personally acquire and keep, by hook and crook, an AR-15 Commando as a personal weapon. DrySlide was messy but worked. While the Army and Marines denied there was a problem with the AR-16, the company would send it to GIs for free upon request. Eventually DOD found some sort of lithium grease that solved the jamming issue, but the DrySlide company that saved many lives got screwed as I recall.
It should be said that a lot of jamming issues on the 16 were the result of failure to clean the 10 round clips (can we still call them magazines?). When issued they were typically rusted and dirty inside, causing failure to feed or double feed. I cleaned them regularly. (A lot of gun wackos haven't figured out that giant banana clips, while looking kool, increase the chance of jams.)
I do need to say that I was mostly a radio operator in the bunker, with 3 months of stalking around at night with a sniper team without ever getting into a firefight. Interestingly, our snipers, usually 2 in a 5 man team, used modified m-14s with special ammo and a zeroed starlight scope mounted on top. Unwieldy, but yes, very accurate. But firing any rifle at night, particularly on auto, would light up you position like a searchlight. Just call in a gunship with night vision stuff.
My JMB is LL Dickerson tied with EW Edwards.
banjo
I had the opportunity to buy my M14 before coming home for $96 after they removed the Bullwinkle switch, what we called the selector switch because it was similar to a moose antler, but silly me didn't.