The real difference between the left and the right

13

Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Nice deflection. You said TR and the rest of the progressives were all about power to the people, when they clearly were not.

    Actually I demonstrated that he was.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Let's not forget that it was a social democrat president, that kicked ****'s ****.

    1) I think the Russians might have an argument about that.
    2) And the only guy who saw it coming was a Tory.
    3) It's not like FDR had much of a choice.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Nice deflection. You said TR and the rest of the progressives were all about power to the people, when they clearly were not. But since you mention it, Bernie is pretty close to a bona fide progressive, with his faith in the power of government. Keep in mind that wants to raise taxes for the sole purpose of reducing income inequality. He wants to turn the US into a Scandinavian country, for Chrissakes. He literally said as much. That's a bridge too far even for Hillary. I can't think of anything more technocratic than that. And the minimum wage is clearly a progressive innovation, as evidenced above.

    Are the Scandinavian counties not constitutional democracies?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
    Let's not forget that it was a social democrat president, that kicked ****'s ****.

    Actually, that was Stalin.
  • If he was not against Darwinism, why did he want to jail a man for teaching it?

    Actually, I think the only person interested in jail was Scopes himself. And of course all of the sympathetic chamber of Commerce Progressive types in Dayton who supported his prosecution so that they could highlight the stupidity of Tennessee's statute.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    1) I think the Russians might have an argument about that.
    2) And the only guy who saw it coming was a Tory.
    3) It's not like FDR had much of a choice.

    FDR saw it coming, he just couldn't sell American involvement to the American people.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Buffco wrote: »
    Actually, that was Stalin.

    ha. to put it crudely, The Wehrmacht ran out of bullets before the Russians ran out of bodies.
  • Well you got to admit it is capitalism at its finest.

    This is so wrong, it's scary. How does slavery jibe with the free movement of capital and labor (which is pretty much the very essence of capitalism)?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Actually, I think the only person interested in jail was Scopes himself. And of course all of the sympathetic chamber of Commerce Progressive types in Dayton who supported his prosecution so that they could highlight the stupidity of Tennessee's statute.

    Was Bryant not the prosecutor in that case?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    This is so wrong, it's scary. How does slavery jibe with the free movement of capital and labor (which is pretty much the very essence of capitalism)?

    If the market supports paying someone nothing but room and board, how is that counter to capitalism?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Steven wrote: »
    2) And the only guy who saw it coming was a Tory.

    You know, this is an underappreciated fact. Churchill was a conservative. What did he know? Something about human nature, perhaps?
  • Was Bryant not the prosecutor in that case?

    One of them. The county had a prosecutor. But it was a big production.

    the person most interested in prosecution was John Scopes. For real, go look it up.
  • sherb wrote: »
    You know, this is an underappreciated fact. Churchill was a conservative. What did he know? Something about human nature, perhaps?

    He was, quite literally, the one person in the world that **** worried about.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    I have already seen Inherit the Wind.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    He was, quite literally, the one person in the world that **** worried about.

    And he was right about so many things.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • If the market supports paying someone nothing but room and board, how is that counter to capitalism?

    The railroad in Plessy v. Ferguson interpleaded on behalf of Homer Plessy. Segregation was costing them money. As Steven would say, its inefficient.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    They may not support race based slavery. But if they could get away with paying nothing, they would.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

  • You and Sherb have spent so much of your life disparaging liberalism that you never really bothered to understand it in anyway other than how William F Buckley would define it.

    Which makes Sherb's constant refrain that conservatives understand liberals better than liberals understand conservatives utter horse ****.

    By the way, this is wrong. I was a liberal for a good part of my life.
  • If the market supports paying someone nothing but room and board, how is that counter to capitalism?

    This is scarier. The market (and I'll assume you mean the free market) needs people to be able to voluntarily contract for goods and services. Did a child born to slave parents in Georgia in 1820 voluntarily contract his labor?
  • And while you say I may not understand it, Both of the original articles I linked were written by liberals. Its much easier to understand left-liberalism than it is conservatism, because liberalism is baked into the American experience in a way that conservatism is not.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    By the way, this is wrong. I was a liberal for a good part of my life.

    Then I don't understand how it is you consistently mischaracterize their positions.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • They may not support race based slavery. But if they could get away with paying nothing, they would.


    But this is pretend. Because somebody would pay to get these laborers, because such a transaction would be profitable to them.

    We could pretend that every employer in the country could get together and agree to pay next to nothing, but that wouldn't be the market either.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    There are no liberals that want to replace the existing constitutional order with a technocratic elite that would be better able to manage the idiosyncracies of modern life. Not even Bernie, who simply wants to tax the wealthy a small percentage more than they currently are in order to pay for a better educational and health system.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Then I don't understand how it is you consistently mischaracterize their positions.

    I don't think I have. What have I mischaracterized?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    But this is pretend. Because somebody would pay to get these laborers, because such a transaction would be profitable to them.

    We could pretend that every employer in the country could get together and agree to pay next to nothing, but that wouldn't be the market either.

    This is what they are doing now. The minimum wage is the only thing preventing them from paying less.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I don't think I have. What have I mischaracterized?

    Have you been reading my posts?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    I think you are confusing liberals for Ed.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • yes. You keep asking me which liberals hold the positions of the charter members of the progressive movement. And that's not what I was addressing. I was addressing the goals behind the progressive movement itself. Modern left-liberalism, following numerous electoral disasters such as McGovern and Mondale, has more or less made peace with markets, especially Hillary. I've never said any different. Bernie would I think upend the apple cart if he could, but its pretty obvious which direction the DNCC wants to go (look at the debate schedule Debbie Wasserman-Schultz put together. It clearly favors Hillary).

    BUT. . . .the DNCC is only a vehicle for promulgating liberal ideas, and is separate and distinct from liberalism itself. So it doesn't really countermand my point to ask which candidate favors progressive ideas. The candidates have to get elected, not liberalism.
  • This is what they are doing now. The minimum wage is the only thing preventing them from paying less.

    Somehow, this doesn't jibe with the fact that less than 4% of hourly workers make minimum wage or less. Some 74 million hourly workers make more. In your world, no hourly worker should make more.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,405 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Somehow, this doesn't jibe with the fact that less than 4% of hourly workers make minimum wage or less. Some 74 million hourly workers make more. In your world, no hourly worker should make more.

    Okay that is this stupidest thing I have ever read. Which goes back to my point, when it comes to understanding liberals all you want to do is disparage and never to understand.

    But how many Republicans say the minimum wage is too high?

    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/donald-trump-wages-215812
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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