One issue where Ted Cruz is right.

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Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    What is it with the left lying to suit their narrative? They didn't choose to leave. Detroit (another third-world democratic hellhole by the way) upped the price of the water.

    The problem in Flint, as in every other locale run by democrats, is excessive government largesse than can no longer be sustained. Flint has a billion dollars in unfunded public pension liabilities. A billion.

    Try reading for more than looking for things to support your position.
    In 2013, the Flint City Council voted 7-1 to build a new water pipeline to Lake Huron, freeing us from exorbitant rates from Detroit.

    Your last point has nothing to do with the decisions that the Emergency manager made that poisoned the water of Flint. Now imagine how much it is going to take to fix this.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Ask yourself this question: why does Flint have an emergency manager to begin with?

    Public Act 4 amended and expanded the procedure. The Michigan Department of Treasury would conduct a preliminary examination of troubled local governments. If “probable financial stress" were found, a financial review would be ordered. The Governor of Michigan and other officials would appoint the eight members of a financial review panel, which could report back to the Governor indicating that the local government is in "mild financial stress, severe financial stress or a financial emergency"[11] within 60 days. If a financial emergency existed but local officials had a viable plan to correct the situation, then the panel could recommend a consent agreement. Otherwise, the panel could recommend an emergency manager to take control of the local government.[12] The Governor was given 10 days after the panel reported its findings to choose an option.[11] The local government then had seven days to request a hearing by the Governor or his designee to appeal the decision.[12] Local governments were required to pay the emergency manager.[13]
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    BTW considering the mendacity of your party's front runners, you comments about liberals lying would be laughable if it were not so tragic.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Ask yourself this question: why does Flint have an emergency manager to begin with?

    Because in the end Republicans do not believe in democracy for poor people.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • We can play this game all day, going **** for tat on who's to blame, or you can just admit that your party's frontrunner-not exactly a paragon of personal integrity-raised this as an issue and blamed racism and the GOP as the cause. which, as per SOP, is total leftist ****.

    It remains clear-or it would to anyone who stopped and thought about it for more than 10 seconds-that a half-century of democratic governance in Flint and elsewhere is the proximate cause of this crisis.
  • Republicans have controlled the White House for more years than Dems, why have none of those administrations done anything about this?

    Because its pure freaking bribery. If Iowa went last this **** wouldn't happen. But nobody in their right mind could justify it because the "market doesn't work."
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    My point is the market is not God. If it were cheaper to get fuel from whale blubber, economists would drive the whales to extinction.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • My point is the market is not God. If it were cheaper to get fuel from whale blubber, economists would drive the whales to extinction.

    Well, that would significantly raise the price of the whale blubber, which would defeat the purpose <supply and demand>
  • Per #33: In 2013, the Flint City Council voted 7-1 to build a new water pipeline to Lake Huron, freeing us from exorbitant rates from Detroit

    **** does this have to do with anything? This was a decision to sign a contract with KWA rather than Detroit. KWA is not Flint River.
    Flint River was resorted to only after Detroit canceled the contract, immediately with Flint. Detroit in effect was extorting Flint.

    At that time, there is no proof, whatsoever, that anybody in Flint government knew of the problems with the Flint River.
  • My point is the market is not God. If it were cheaper to get fuel from whale blubber, economists would drive the whales to extinction.

    Or we'd find a way to breed more whales just like we found a way to get more oil. Or maybe not.
  • Steven wrote: »
    Or we'd find a way to breed more whales just like we found a way to get more oil. Or maybe not.

    Have we reached peak blubber yet? Nope, not yet.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,692 Senior Member
    To return to the original theme of the thread, I agree that Cruz is right about not subsidizing corn farmers in an economically disastrous attempt at home-grown energy independence. The simple fact is that producing ethanol from corn is not viable at anywhere near what sustained oil prices have been; perhaps, briefly, it made sense at their peak. There simply isn't enough energy in corn to make this feasible. But he's wrong on the greater concept of alternative fuels.

    What is feasible and makes sense economically is to make ethanol from sugar cane, something Brazil excels at and we do not - it's a matter of climate (See "comparative advantage" if you do not understand this already). I'm not sure why southern sugar cane producers have not switched to ethanol production, but I would hazard a guess that it is because of other market-distorting subsidies for U.S. grown sugar.

    And Steven, blanket statements about what liberals believe will not get you a gold star. We want to moderate the most wretched excesses of unbridled capitalism, and believe that fiscal and monetary policy both are useful tools. Even Bernie knows this and if you look past his self identification as a socialist it is obvious that he actually is a social democrat.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Per #33: In 2013, the Flint City Council voted 7-1 to build a new water pipeline to Lake Huron, freeing us from exorbitant rates from Detroit

    **** does this have to do with anything? This was a decision to sign a contract with KWA rather than Detroit. KWA is not Flint River.
    Flint River was resorted to only after Detroit canceled the contract, immediately with Flint. Detroit in effect was extorting Flint.

    At that time, there is no proof, whatsoever, that anybody in Flint government knew of the problems with the Flint River.

    That alternative source became the Flint River. And it was Earley who validated the filtration and use of Flint River water.
    That alternative source became the Flint River. And it was Earley who validated the filtration and use of Flint River water.

    Later, in 2015, amid rumors of lead compounded with TTHM violations, the city council voted, again 7-1, to "do all things necessary" to return to Detroit water. Their decision was vetoed by emergency manager Jerry Ambrose. He said that the vote was "incomprehensible."

    All these decisions were made by the Flint Emergency Manager. Despite all the conservative press's desire to deflect. That is the end of it.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Or we'd find a way to breed more whales just like we found a way to get more oil. Or maybe not.

    Unless of course it is just cheaper to kill them all.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • That alternative source became the Flint River. And it was Earley who validated the filtration and use of Flint River water.

    Sure. And once again after being cut off by Detroit. But no, Earley wasn't a scientist. The "scientists" at the EPA and Michigan's Department of Environmental Quality validated the use of Flint River water. That, is the end of it.


    All these decisions were made by the Flint Emergency Manager. Despite all the conservative press's desire to deflect. That is the end of it.

    Again, with the input of the scientists at the EPA and MDEQ.
  • Unless of course it is just cheaper to kill them all.

    As the cost of whale blubber went up, we'd use something else.

    I give it a 5 for triteness but a 1 for realism.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member
    The EPA to blame?

    The most controversial culprit, however, is the federal Environmental Protection Agency. Long before the crisis erupted, an EPA employee sounded the alarm about a serious lead problem in Flint’s drinking water system. But his higher-ups declined to make that information public, and instead tried behind the scenes to get the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality to take action to solve the problem.

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/01/26/3741139/epa-flint-water-crisis/


    I also agree with Cruz. More fossil fuels are burned to create ethanol making it energy negative.

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/UC-scientist-says-ethanol-uses-more-energy-than-2659237.php

    http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2005/07/ethanol-biodiesel-corn-and-other-crops-not-worth-energy
  • By the way, Darnell Earley (the "economist" Chris wants to blame everything on) was a public administrator his entire life.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darnell_Earley

    Not that this really matters, but just for the record.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    As the cost of whale blubber went up, we'd use something else.

    I give it a 5 for triteness but a 1 for realism.

    Ok so there would be 2 left.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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