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  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    But having so many supporters who have sold their services to fossil fuel companies may complicate her emphasis on pro-environment policies.

    So wait these people are not currently working in the fossil fuel industry? Are you also further suggesting that in order to battle climate change we must stop all use and export of fossil fuels? That might be a good idea, although impractical. I can guarandamntee you that her opponents will be calling climate change a hoax so they are not viable alternatives.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    They all do it.

    Seriously, though, there is no way in hell I'm voting for her in the primary. Not that the four of us Democratic voters in UT make a **** bit of difference. I'm still looking for an alternative.

    I'm also considering a write-in for the general election. Once again, my vote doesn't matter so I'm going to find a sane socialist-leaning D that I like as there is also no way I'm voting for any of the Republican candidates.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    I'm voting for Bernie. But it will probably be Hillary in the general.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    I'm voting for None of the Above, Maybe as a write-in.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,280 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    They all do it.

    Seriously, though, there is no way in hell I'm voting for her in the primary. Not that the four of us Democratic voters in UT make a **** bit of difference. I'm still looking for an alternative.

    I'm also considering a write-in for the general election. Once again, my vote doesn't matter so I'm going to find a sane socialist-leaning D that I like as there is also no way I'm voting for any of the Republican candidates.

    Yup. When it comes to the U.S. government protecting polluters and fossil-fuel energy, the status-quo parties are six of one and a half-dozen of the other.

    Oh well. Maybe energy credits would help. :D
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,372 Senior Member
    "One prominent lobbying topic embraced by Clinton bundlers is the expansion of liquefied natural gas exports and federal approval of new LNG terminals."

    Natural gas does produce less CO2 than oil or coal, and represents a chance to lower emissions somewhat, depending on technology. So her support from these people is defensible. Others are just trying to buy some access.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,280 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    Natural gas does produce less CO2 than oil or coal, and represents a chance to lower emissions somewhat, depending on technology.

    True statement but unfortunately that's offset by the methods used to extract it before it even gets to the end user..fracking.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    There is something to be said for the fact that oil and gas are a major part of our economy. That does not mean they should not be regulated. I am disappointed in her position on Key Stone. We should not have a pipeline of the most caustic oil in the world running through our most precious land.

    I am voting for Bernie.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    True statement but unfortunately that's offset by the methods used to extract it before it even gets to the end user..fracking.

    Fracking does happen without environmental harm in places, so it can be done. Fracking should be regulated by the Clean Air and Clean Water act.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,280 Senior Member
    Fracking does happen without environmental harm in places, so it can be done.

    How and where?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    There are thousands of wells all over America.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,372 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    True statement but unfortunately that's offset by the methods used to extract it before it even gets to the end user..fracking.

    That problem exists but can be solved with better technology. Natural gas is also produced or can be produced from conventional wells all around the world in enormous amounts. Companies have an incentive to reduce leakage because the gas is marketable.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,372 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    How and where?

    Where there is a thick sequence of shale or ductile sealing rock above the zone, leakage of fracking fluids remaining in the shale to near the surface is very unlikely. The fracking fluids will leave some chemicals in the shale, but typically at great depth (1-2 miles). How is this done? By good practices and careful regulation by the state.
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,372 Senior Member
    I am disappointed in her position on Key Stone. We should not have a pipeline of the most caustic oil in the world running through our most precious land.

    I think the Keystone controversy is mostly politics. First, there are thousands of miles of oil and other pipelines throughout the midwest already, its not like this is the first. Not to mention rail and truck transport of similar fluids. And I think the "caustic" nature of the fluid is exaggerated relative to other oil. Keystone is really just another huge pipeline project that happened to get politicized. It will incrementally increase greenhouse gas emissions by a tiny fraction. Of course, with the drop in oil price, Keystone may be a dead duck.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    And those pipelines leak. We do not need to add more.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    For what it's worth, I don't really give a **** about global climate change anymore. Nobody in any industrialized nation is going to do a **** thing about it. Even if we Americans, as a nation, drastically reduced our carbon footprint, China and India are going to dwarf our oil/gas useage. We're screwed; past the tipping point already. Screw it. Yes, I do my best to conserve energy and vote for people who care about the environment, but I only do so that when the ship is about to slip under the waves I can feel that I at least tried. Once again, I can't do anything to stem the dismal tide.
    My big problem with fracking is the lack of disclosure on the part of the energy companies. Also, it needs to be heavily regulated to ensure safety. Until these things happen I will remain vehemently against the process.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    My big problem with fracking is the lack of disclosure on the part of the energy companies. Also, it needs to be heavily regulated to ensure safety. Until these things happen I will remain vehemently against the process.

    Yes.

    ....
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,210 Senior Member
    I believe the average fracked well uses 5 million gallons of water over its lifespan. This is the real problem..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,280 Senior Member
    There are thousands of wells all over America.

    Yeah so. That doesn't mean that there isn't any environmental impact or concern.

    The real problem is in the last decade with the horizontal fracking and all of the toxic chemicals being pumped into the ground, water supplies being poisoned and frack sand mines popping up all over the country.

    In my very own state, frack sand is being mined and knocking down our bluffs and hills taking away the sand that filters the water for our trout streams. If you cared about trout streams in this country you would be against fracking.


    http://www.onearth.org/earthwire/wisconsin-frac-sands

    http://conservationvoters.org/issues/frac-sand-mining/
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    Good points, Mike & Joe. Wetdog has also brought up the negative enviro impacts that sand mining is having in WI. It's not just the fracking itself.
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,996 Senior Member
    I believe Wetdog brought up silicosis due to the open pit sand mines, and uncovered or loosely covered trucks.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    FishTX wrote: »
    I believe Wetdog brought up silicosis due to the open pit sand mines, and uncovered or loosely covered trucks.

    Or as the R's call it, "Freedom Disease."

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