Home The Lodge

Semi Legal Question for Sherb

jbillyjbilly Senior MemberPosts: 6,017 Senior Member
So this morning I ran into work quickly before my boy's kindergarten graduation (oh man thank god he passed :D ) So I was kind of in a hurry.

Anyway the facility/campus I work at is pretty spread out and they have their own security group and fire fighters (cross trained in many cases). Anyway I will be the first to admit on the way out I totally rolled the stop sign out of the parking lot. Wouldn't you know it, one of the cops was parked in the lot watching for that and speeders (yes, they even have radar guns). So anyway I got pulled over. The dude says you know why and I said yeah, I didn't stop fully. So asks me for my work ID (we have to wear a badge at all times) and drivers license.

I hand them both to him he goes off to his truck and comes back a bit later and says I'm off with a warning, etc. If they do give you a ticket (not monetary) your manager gets notified and you get to spend some time in their office. If it happens too often, or you are really hauling butt they will forbid you from driving on company property.

Anyway no harm no foul. But on the way home I got to thinking about it and, since they are not true LEO, do they have the right to as for my drivers license? Not that I am suggesting not giving it to them, like I said, I was in the wrong, and frankly I like being employed. I would imagine they could probably fire me if I chose to be a d-head about it.

I am just curious if they have the legal right to ask for my ID? Hell I showed it to them when I got hired, like I said not trying to fight the system, just curious what their authority is? it is their private property so I guess they can prevent me from driving on it or entering.

Thanks

Replies

  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,210 Senior Member
    They were making sure you weren't an illegal..... Jose..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Am I being detained reading this thread?
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,367 Senior Member
    Can't a private landowner ask local police to come on their land to enforce the laws. Like in a mall parking lot. Also, they are of course looking out for terrorists, so may be federally empowered. But the fact that they don't give out fines suggests they have no connection with a court system where you could contest it.

    I worked for a while with the BuRec on the Denver Federal Center, which at the time I worked there was federal property (its city of lakewood now). Anyway, I got a speeding ticket from a federal LEO there, and he told me I would have to go to the Federal Courthouse in Denver to contest it. You know, the same courthouse where Timothy McVeigh was tried. So I sent in the check.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    So this morning I ran into work quickly before my boy's kindergarten graduation (oh man thank god he passed :D ) So I was kind of in a hurry.

    Anyway the facility/campus I work at is pretty spread out and they have their own security group and fire fighters (cross trained in many cases). Anyway I will be the first to admit on the way out I totally rolled the stop sign out of the parking lot. Wouldn't you know it, one of the cops was parked in the lot watching for that and speeders (yes, they even have radar guns). So anyway I got pulled over. The dude says you know why and I said yeah, I didn't stop fully. So asks me for my work ID (we have to wear a badge at all times) and drivers license.

    I hand them both to him he goes off to his truck and comes back a bit later and says I'm off with a warning, etc. If they do give you a ticket (not monetary) your manager gets notified and you get to spend some time in their office. If it happens too often, or you are really hauling butt they will forbid you from driving on company property.

    Anyway no harm no foul. But on the way home I got to thinking about it and, since they are not true LEO, do they have the right to as for my drivers license? Not that I am suggesting not giving it to them, like I said, I was in the wrong, and frankly I like being employed. I would imagine they could probably fire me if I chose to be a d-head about it.

    I am just curious if they have the legal right to ask for my ID? Hell I showed it to them when I got hired, like I said not trying to fight the system, just curious what their authority is? it is their private property so I guess they can prevent me from driving on it or entering.

    Thanks

    Its a good example of the limits of constitutional rights. "detaining" someone is a term that refers to a constitutional right, i.e. the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. A constitution limits the power of government, not private citizens. Private actors are not bound by the dictates of the Constitution. He can do a lot more than ask for your driver's license. He can pretty much do whatever company policy and the bounds of the law allow. Its analogous to a loss-prevention officer at Walmart. The loss-prevention guy can search you, detain you, ask you questions, and the constitution is never even considered.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    There's a caveat: if a private security guard acts as an agent of law enforcement, then all of the usual constitutional strictures apply. But some type of agency relationship needs to exist.
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    I feel safer now that this jbilly scofflaw is off the streets.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,017 Senior Member
    So I should treat the body cavity search like a bonus?
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    Good question. Was Buffy gentle?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,017 Senior Member
    seppala wrote: »
    Good question. Was Buffy gentle?

    Sadly yes. So then I used my spurs and said treat my like a ginger. That made things a bit more rambunctious
  • magallowaymagalloway Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    Okay, next question:

    I was wandering around Freeport, Maine with my wife today, and when we finished and returned to our car in the LL Bean parking lot, a rather officious young man dressed in sloppy black pants, a black polo shirt, and a yellow vest walked up and demanded to inspect my "disabled" placard which was clearly hanging from my mirror at the time. When I asked him his authority to do so, he replied, "I'm a parking enforcement officer for the Freeport police department." Just for sh#ts and giggles, I asked to see some form of identification, to which he replied, "Oh, they don't give us any, we're just auxiliary officers." I handed him my placard, but said, "I'm complying with your request, but as far as I'm concerned, you're only a yahoo in a yellow vest, and should you find some reason to write me a citation, I'll contest your ability to do so and you'll spend your day off sitting around a courtroom." He told me not to get upset; I told him I wasn't upset, only advising him to pressure his boss to provide him with ID of some sort. I was always under the impression that 'law enforcement' officers, even ball-bearing meter maids, had to show their credentials upon demand; am I correct, or was I about to get tazed and have my spine damaged even more?


    Jim
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,017 Senior Member
    This clearly should have been handled with a brown glove inspection

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction.

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Fly Fisherman stories delivered right to your inbox.

Advertisement