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Bernie Sanders AMA on Reddit

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  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    He asked what the back up for wind and solar was. It is either coal, gas, or nuclear power.

    Or other wind or other solar. Those sources would already be powering the grid. You do understand that power plants are taken down all the time for various reasons and power is uninterrupted right and those sources come from many miles away. That is how Enron was able to screw California for billions of dollars.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Prove it.
    ..
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
    The proof is we haven't done it.

    I think you're underestimating the demand for power and overestimating the output of a wind farm in Kansas when the rest of the country is cloudy and lacking wind.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    We never flew a plane before Kittyhawk, so I guess manned flight is impossible. I just showed you where Germany is able to produce half of its electricity from Solar. You are assuming there will be no technological improvements in the next 10 years.

    If they can switch to a coal plant they can switch to a wind farm that is currently up and running. We got electricity in California from Colorado for crying out loud. It does not have to be a source in your back yard. Now imagine we actually invest in smart grid technology, thus saving even more electricity.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    Imagine a 90 story office building.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    Building of such a huge number of solar installations and wind turbines, AND the transmission wires to carry the energy from widely distributed remote locations to consumers in cities far away will require enormous amounts of raw materials, many of them environmentally damaging to mine. This cost is often ignored. Right now, they are building wind turbines in Wyoming, but only adjacent to already existing power lines.

    The mine where I worked produced palladium. The primary use of that metal is catalytic converters.

    Is the mine degrading the environment? Yes. Will people stop driving cars and producing emissions? No. So you have to determine if the positives outweigh the negatives.

    I don't think the use of mined materials outweighs the benefits of alternative energy.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    While i support full scale solar and wind development, the fact is the engineering establishment doesn't seem sold on the practicality of a really major conversion with present technology. We've already seen an abortion of a project on corn ethanol, which was no alternative at all, just a gift to ADM stock owners and a porkbarrel to farm states. And its many of the same Ecodupes who supported that stuff who say we can convert totally to solar and wind now. We have to separate the wishes from the reality.
    But the science literature is full of promising new research, so maybe. Fusion power, anyone?

    If you had a choice between building 50 to a 100 nuclear facilities or investing some of that money into new research on other alternatives, which would you choose?

    It is going to have to be a mixed bag for quite sometime and coal is not going away, I don't care what fantasies anyone has on the idea. My only objection with nuclear is that it is not cheap, it is not clean, and it is dangerous. You find a way to eliminate these factors, I am with you. But I am not online to build 100 nuclear facilities when we do not have a way to manage the waste from what we already have.

    http://americanhistory.si.edu/tmi/

    http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2014/03/28/three-mile-island-35-years-later/
    “I think as adults we have to come to grips with the fact that we’ve created a hazardous waste site and we’ll have to guard it—isolate it—for hundreds, if not thousands of years.”
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,206 Senior Member
    [h=1]Coal and gas are far more harmful than nuclear power[/h]
    http://climate.nasa.gov/news/903/
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Again, you are not going to replace coal with nuclear either.

    But I am glad you are willing to admit that man made climate change is a thing. I guess that is progress.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,977 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Live free or die, Ethan Allen. Live free or die.

    Why should I take advice from a furniture salesman?
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 6,012 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    OK, I will fess up. Yucca Mountain is my baby. I spent 3 years as part of the site Characterization team with a contractor to the U.S.G.S. The complaints IMO about the safety are mostly political and cost. You put it in the ground with enough high tech containment materials, and it will stay there for well over 1,000 years (10,00 is actually the mandated congressional isolation time) at which time it will be no more radioactive than the ores it was recovered from. The problems are political. One, no one in Nevada trusts the DOE to do it right,(and I'm not sure I do either, they are rife with political appointees) and the huge casino-tourist industry sees no benefit from the risk and notoriety. Two, the real problem is transporting the waste from the reactors, where it is currently bursting the on-site storage facilities at the seams in the middle of our urban areas. The majority of states will have to deal with the convoys and train traffic carrying the canisters through their towns and cities. Can you say terrorist attacks in your burg? This is the little talked about political problem with Y.M.

    That said, the issue only touched on here is the looming climate change. If as I do, we consider reducing greenhouse gas reduction as soon as possible to be essential to civilization, you have to consider Nuclear in the mix. It needs to be taken (political chewtoy alert) out of the realm of profit-making organizations, and treated as similar to the nuclear submarine program. A completely new R&D program to identify safer and less costly designs and a more reliable non-profit oriented command structure is in order.

    BTW, the Salt Dome disposal thing is OK for low level waste, but don't we want the ability to access the waste if something goes wrong or we find a superior new way to deal with it. The history of the WIPP plant is a lesson in the ineptness of the DOE. When they started it, the state of New Mexico wanted it. After some years of duplicity on the part of the DOE, New Mexico was ready to kick the program out of the state.

    While i support full scale solar and wind development, the fact is the engineering establishment doesn't seem sold on the practicality of a really major conversion with present technology. We've already seen an abortion of a project on corn ethanol, which was no alternative at all, just a gift to ADM stock owners and a porkbarrel to farm states. And its many of the same Ecodupes who supported that stuff who say we can convert totally to solar and wind now. We have to separate the wishes from the reality.
    But the science literature is full of promising new research, so maybe. Fusion power, anyone?

    I lived in Reno from birth till about 25 with a couple years away for school all while YM was hot and heavy. Even at my young age I thought that state was run by a bunch of morons. We should have told the feds we would take it from the start and not fought it and made them pay out the nose. You know how Alaskans get money for the oil. Well Nevada should have done the same thing for the waste. They could have been in fat city. Plus if there is a problem it will only wipe out Vegas....that is not a bad thing at all. ;)
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Not to mention all the hot air in the lodge. BTW, what airplane are you talking about?
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 4,362 Senior Member
    This would be the same with a nuclear facility.

    NO. There is already a distribution system for point sources: I'm talking about the gathering system. Solar and wind are a low density energy source that requires facilities that are spread out over huge areas, and then the electricity must be collected into a system. That system does not exist.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    I was thinking of the materials to build the reactor and the fuel.

    I am not an expert on the grid or the physics involved, but I did watch the smartest guys in the room and I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night. So I do know that they do transport electricity across an already expansive network over many miles.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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