Here's Your Chance

magallowaymagalloway Senior MemberPosts: 1,030 Senior Member
In Fishingcomic's recent post and in several others lately, the term "Middle Class" has been bandied about. I would contend that the term is almost useless in today's society and that it has become a political talking bullet
rather than something which defines a group of citizens. In any case, why don't we set to nailing down just what it is we're talking about when we use this term.

I would contend that the term traditionally referred to a group with some combination of a) an income level somewhat (or even much) higher than wage-earners, b) a level of education beyond the norm, and c) a set rather stodgy values largely ignored by both the Upper and Lower Classes.

Anyway, let's give it our best shot, and comments like "Hex is a bottom-feeding scum-sucker who lives in a cubicle farm and squanders the money he could use to better himself on stupid-looking bicycles," while not required, might lighten the load.


Jim
«1

Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,423 Senior Member
    I would define it as someone that makes enough either through salary or wages to put them in the middle percentage of workers in this country.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • magallowaymagalloway Senior Member Posts: 1,030 Senior Member
    You would contend, then, that only wealth and income define it?

    Jim
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,423 Senior Member
    Yes.
    .......
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    I actually have an office not a cubicle. However the rest seems accurate.
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    magalloway wrote: »
    You would contend, then, that only wealth and income define it?

    Jim

    I agree with comic. Values can be shared across income levels. There are plenty of suburbanites that have the same values as those in trailer parks and brownstones.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    I would define it as someone that makes enough either through salary or wages to put them in the middle percentage of workers in this country.

    Me too..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • magallowaymagalloway Senior Member Posts: 1,030 Senior Member
    Would separating the terms, "Middle Class" and "Middle Income" help? Yes, value systems can certainly cut across income levels; I had a potty-rich uncle who was a bottom-feeder until the day he died, and in my opinion, he passed both his wealth and his values to his Khardasian-like daughter. Someday, if you like, I'll regale you with "Uncle Eugene" stories.

    Jim
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    I would agree that it is income/wealth driven. I'd say the social aspects are part of the definition but are actually financial driven as well. For example, the middle class takes a family type vacation; whereas the upper class take multiple or exotic or longer ones and the lower class doesn't...all financially driven. The lower class eats and drinks differently than the middle and different from the upper class. Sure it is somewhat social, but again it is all financially driven.

    I would guess that pretty much everyone here would be considered middle class.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Middle class thinks they is a Fancy man..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    I would guess that pretty much everyone here would be considered middle class.

    Speak for yourself, trailer trash.

    92c44233ce9417cb0e18e051ef40f03a.jpg
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,423 Senior Member
    magalloway wrote: »
    Would separating the terms, "Middle Class" and "Middle Income" help? Yes, value systems can certainly cut across income levels; I had a potty-rich uncle who was a bottom-feeder until the day he died, and in my opinion, he passed both his wealth and his values to his Khardasian-like daughter. Someday, if you like, I'll regale you with "Uncle Eugene" stories.

    Jim

    Actually if it is not strictly income based then it has no meaning and is completely subjective.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,077 Senior Member
    I like Barefoot's moscato
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    seppala wrote: »
    Speak for yourself, trailer trash.

    92c44233ce9417cb0e18e051ef40f03a.jpg

    I was trying to keep from calling your mullet hillbilly toothless welfare receiving **** out.

    Are we still on for that date at Long John Silvers?
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,048 Senior Member
    "Not poor, not rich" is about as close as one can get to a definition that almost everyone will agree with, but only if we are talking strictly about economic class. Throw in concepts like low, high and middle brow, education level and liberal arts v. business/trade schools and a hopeless task elevates to impossible to the third power.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,423 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    Throw in concepts like low, high and middle brow, education level and liberal arts v. business/trade schools and a hopeless task elevates to impossible to the third power.

    That is why I don't do it.

    My father taught me that a man who gets up and works to take care of his family is worthy of respect no matter what he does. You know I am not a tradesman, but I have known a few, had to hire a few to do work around the house. Having a degree is not the only way that a man earns value. The time one takes to truly learn a craft is just as long as some college degrees. I don't know about you, but I might be able to pour concrete, but it takes a craftsman to finish concrete and to do it well.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    If you aren't poor enough to sell a kidney on the black market nor wealthy enough to purchase one, then you are middle class.


    Sent from my ObamaPhone using Tapatalk
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    I was trying to keep from calling your mullet hillbilly toothless welfare receiving **** out.

    Are we still on for that date at Long John Silvers?

    Sorry. Spent all my cash on that wine and cheese.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    If you aren't poor enough to sell a kidney on the black market nor wealthy enough to purchase one, then you are middle class.


    Sent from my ObamaPhone using Tapatalk

    What if your brother donated one to you and all you had to pay for the transplant out of pocket was the $50 co-pay?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    seppala wrote: »
    Sorry. Spent all my cash on that wine and cheese.

    My treat, I'm trying to break into the lower upper class category.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,247 Senior Member
    What's been ignored in this discussion is location and cost of living.

    Where I live, our combined income is considered middle class. Now take our combined income and throw me in the Chicago area or another city with a high cost of living...San Diego, Los Angeles, Boston etc. and I am easily in the poor house.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    What's been ignored in this discussion is location and cost of living.

    Where I live, our combined income is considered middle class. Now take our combined income and throw me in the Chicago area or another city with a high cost of living...San Diego, Los Angeles, Boston etc. and I am easily in the poor house.

    But that is still all about money, and that is why the typical yearly earning scale of the middle class is so huge.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,247 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    But that is still all about money, and that is why the typical yearly earning scale of the middle class is so huge.

    Agreed. Just thought I would point out that middle class in one location may not be middle class in another location. That is if money is the defining attribute.
  • I dissent.

    I don't think its about money at all. I think Walmart employees and Hedge funders in Newport Beach both think of themselves as middle class. Its really more about values in my opinion. Politicians know this, which is why every word out of their mouths is a paean to their virtues.
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I dissent.

    I don't think its about money at all. I think Walmart employees and Hedge funders in Newport Beach both think of themselves as middle class. Its really more about values in my opinion. Politicians know this, which is why every word out of their mouths is a paean to their virtues.

    But ultimately, if you take income out of it, it's all semantics. It doesn't mean **** besides lip service.

    Kanman thought he was a master philosopher. That doesn't mean anyone else thought that.
  • It does to the person saying it. Unless you're talking about econometric data, it matters a great deal what someone calls themselves, because that's part of their identity.
  • seppalaseppala Senior Member Posts: 1,916 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    It does to the person saying it. Unless you're talking about econometric data, it matters a great deal what someone calls themselves, because that's part of their identity.

    But that's what I'm saying. Econometric data is the only thing you can actually measure. You can do all kinds of foofy sociological experiments, but you're just playing with words.

    Sorry. That's the science background showing through.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,048 Senior Member
    "Middle class" has a many meanings as there are ways to distinguish among groups of people. Or, perhaps those ways all ought to be considered, which is why I think it is an exercise in futility. See my post No. 15 above.

    It seems as though most here are thinking "middle income", which is not at all the same thing.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,423 Senior Member
    I don think it does. It is after all and economic class.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,423 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I dissent.

    I don't think its about money at all. I think Walmart employees and Hedge funders in Newport Beach both think of themselves as middle class. Its really more about values in my opinion. Politicians know this, which is why every word out of their mouths is a paean to their virtues.

    No I think Walmart employees see themselves as struggling to make it to the middle class.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George K wrote: »
    "Middle class" has a many meanings as there are ways to distinguish among groups of people. Or, perhaps those ways all ought to be considered, which is why I think it is an exercise in futility. See my post No. 15 above.

    It seems as though most here are thinking "middle income", which is not at all the same thing.

    Not even close to the same thing. Amen to that.

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