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SCOTUS Decision on Hobby Lobby today.

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  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Actually, I was wrong when I said it was about contraception yesterday. It was about abortifacients. Hobby Lobby was suing because it didn't want to pay to cover Plan B, Ella and IUDs. Women who work for Hobby Lobby still get the Pill and many other forms of contraception.

    Apparently HL does cover vasectomies but vasectomy coverage is not required under the ACA.

    War on Men!

    FWIW, the racist store owner wouldn't get away it. Under the RFRA, the Federal government could force the store owner to serve African Americans because the government has a compelling interest in preventing discrimination and there would be no less "burdensome" alternative compared to enforcing that the racist storeowner serve African-Americans. The Jehovah's Witness example is better, because there is a less burdensome alternative - either something similar to the the deal that's brewing with religious institutions on the contraceptive issue or the federal government paying for it with tax dollars.

    The can of worms is open, but it's likely to be small. How many very large, closely held businesses are out there that profess strong religious beliefs like Hobby Lobby?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,549 Senior Member
    Except that plan b does not cause abortions.

    http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/plan-b
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    The irony of the the Court's reliance on RFRA will not be lost on the liberal law geeks. RFRA is a legislative response to Oregon v. Smith (1990) a decision authored by Scalia. RFRA was passed unanimously by the House and Senate (3 dissenting votes in total)and signed into law by Slick Willie. So the idea that religious freedom warrants a higher level of legal scrutiny was once supported by a democratic majority in the House and Senate.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    From your webmd link: "It is also possible that this type of emergency birth control prevents implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus by altering its lining."

    Some people think that preventing a fertilized egg from implanting on the uterus is an abortion, doubly so because they also believe life begins at conception, not at post-fertilization implantation.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    Except that plan b does not cause abortions.

    http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/plan-b

    Well, that's an empirical question and not the subject of the lawsuit. if Hobby lobby believes that plan B is an abortifacent, or even if they don't and are simply uncomfortable with providing it regardless of the science, they are entitled to deny coverage.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,549 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    The irony of the the Court's reliance on RFRA will not be lost on the liberal law geeks. RFRA is a legislative response to Oregon v. Smith (1990) a decision authored by Scalia. RFRA was passed unanimously by the House and Senate (3 dissenting votes in total)and signed into law by Slick Willie. So the idea that religious freedom warrants a higher level of legal scrutiny was once supported by a democratic majority in the House and Senate.

    If you watch liberal media, you will see the irony is not lost.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    If you watch liberal media, you will see the irony is not lost.

    Interesting. You by chance have a link? I don't have a lot of time at home and have to watch on the web on my lunch hour.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,549 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    From your webmd link: "It is also possible that this type of emergency birth control prevents implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus by altering its lining."

    Some people think that preventing a fertilized egg from implanting on the uterus is an abortion, doubly so because they also believe life begins at conception, not at post-fertilization implantation.

    Doesn't the pill have the same possibility? I will concede your point. No other site I looked at on this issue provided that information.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 6,287 Senior Member
    Doesn't the pill have the same possibility? I will concede your point. No other site I looked at on this issue provided that information.
    From what I've read the pill prevents ovulation, fertilization, or both.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,549 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Interesting. You by chance have a link? I don't have a lot of time at home and have to watch on the web on my lunch hour.

    http://www.msnbc.com/all
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    If there's no ovulation, there can't be fertilization. I play a doctor on TV.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 6,287 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    If there's no ovulation, there can't be fertilization. I play a doctor on TV.
    But if there is ovulation but you prevent fertilization, then there is still no conception....
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    If there were ovulation, the pill may or may not prevent fertilization. But, if taken properly, there should be no ovulation.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    The primary way that Plan B works is to prevent ovulation and or fertilization.. but if taken after fertilization and before implantation, it also can possibly prevent implantation of the fertilized egg due to how it changes the uterine wall.

    That's why Hobby Lobby's owners don't want to pay for it: because Plan B could kill a fertilized egg by not letting it implant on the uterus. It's the same reason why Hobby Lobby won't have to pay for their employee's IUDs.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member

    By the way, I can't believe you watch that crap. it's like Fox news for the Jon Stewart set.

    That was some cringe-inducing nonsense.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,549 Senior Member
    I may watch it, but I never use it as a source for anything. But he does bring a different perspective. Besides you read George Will, I think you are hardly clean.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 49,774 Senior Member
    0-0 at the half.
    **** those Belgians are fast
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,928 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    0-0 at the half.
    **** those Belgians are fast

    Not much else to talk about here.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    In you or on you?

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