U.S. Air and Drone strikes kill more civilians than terrorists

EdBEdB Senior MemberPosts: 2,945 Senior Member
This according to Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and Malala.

http://rt.com/news/yemen-drone-strikes-report-538/

A new report by Human Rights Watch once again confirms that Hellfire rockets lack selectivity and exterminate women and children more often than they hit Al-Qaeda associates. Last month the UN urged the US to reveal data on civilian drone casualties.

The prominent human rights organization has released a detailed 102-page report on the US drone attacks and airstrikes in Yemen against militants of the Al-Qaeda wing in the country simultaneously with another human rights organization Amnesty International issuing a report on US drone strikes in Pakistan.

Basically, the HRW report has maintained an already widely-known fact that civilians die too often in reported ‘surgical’ strikes which is unacceptable even by the ‘law of war’.

“The US has launched about 80 targeted killing operations in Yemen since 2009,” claims Humans Rights Watch Senior Researcher Letta Tayler.

Still, the HRW report considers only six of them, one of which took place in 2009, and other five occurring in 2012-2013. These six attacks claimed the lives of 82 people, 57 of whom - or practically 70 percent - were civilians.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/10/11/205176/obama-and-first-lady-meet-with.html

"I thanked President Obama for the United States' work in supporting education in Pakistan and Afghanistan and for Syrian refugees," she said in the statement. "I also expressed my concerns that drone attacks are fueling terrorism. Innocent victims are killed in these acts, and they lead to resentment among the Pakistani people. If we refocus efforts on education it will make a big impact."
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Replies

  • 3000 > 57


    The new World Trade Center opened today. I saw it. It's beautiful.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    3000 > 200,000 Afgan and Pakistan, 500,000 + Iraq. Conservative count.
  • Get back to me when we gas our own.

    It's a **** count. 3,000 people in those two towers don't give a ****.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    You're right, the real count is much higher.
  • 4 posts? 4 freaking posts all day?
  • EdB wrote: »
    You're right, the real count is much higher.

    Yeah right. As we imagine the Shangri-la that these places would be, the advances in medicine, the gain in life expectancy to equal that of Japan and then blame the fact that the wildest dreams of the Far Left didn't occur because of the U.S.

    We can't run a website, but we've "killed" millions of innocents.

    Don't worry Sherb this board won't die until Ed gets his 72 virgins.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Don't worry Sherb this board won't die until Ed gets his 72 virgins.

    That's nasty, had a bad day?
  • dryfliedryflie Senior Member Posts: 1,442 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    4 posts? 4 freaking posts all day?

    We're fading fast. Pretty soon it'll be just Ed and Hextall and I suspect they're the same guy/lady.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    Personally I value the American lives lost way more than others.

    Civilians die in war...it sucks and it is sad, but compared to other wars the amount of civilian casualties is small. I guess we could carpet bomb Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Somali instead.

    And lets also not forget how many of these innocent "civilians" where hanging out with Akhmed the IED maker when a hellfire got dropped on his ****?

    Maybe we should send more of our soldiers into harms instead of drones so we could have more dead, that would make it all better right?
  • EdB wrote: »
    That's nasty, had a bad day?

    Actually I had a great day. I was a rock star.

    And I did see the new WTC today; it is gorgeous (but it's smaller than the Sears/Willis Tower; meauring by the spire is complete BS)
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,077 Senior Member
    Yes civilians die and are injured, but the claim that we kill more civilians than terrorists is stupid. We have no idea how many have been murdered by terrorists. We see the tip of the iceberg. Can you account for every murder by terrorists in every town, farm, lonely place on the road? Bet not.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    The claim is being made by Human rights watch and Amnesty International, they are not stupid.
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,077 Senior Member
    jeeze louise. Can you point out to me where I said anybody was stupid? I said you (them) can't know all the deaths related to terrorists activities. In some of those countries I doubt the governments know the actual size of their populations. Maybe they have a fair idea about the populations in the big cities, but not so much the small towns and rural areas. Combine that with people too scared to go to the authorities with information about taliban activities.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    This is a quote from you're post.

    " but the claim that we kill more civilians than terrorists is stupid."
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    The claim is being made by Human rights watch and Amnesty International, they are not stupid.

    And who did they ask to see if the dead were fine upstanding citizens. Do you believe those 2 organizations don't have their own agenda? Why are they so reputable? Why should the rest of us believe them?

    Better question why do we even have these arguments every month or two?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    No civilians were harmed in the making of this film
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    Not just drones, but I am sure these are all more civilians that are just looking for peace and love....

    And just in case you weren't planning on viewing it, what the first 30 seconds or so...it is worth your time...

  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    And who did they ask to see if the dead were fine upstanding citizens. Do you believe those 2 organizations don't have their own agenda? Why are they so reputable? Why should the rest of us believe them?

    Better question why do we even have these arguments every month or two?

    This is from the link I posted, you should read it.

    During six weeks in Yemen in 2012-2013, Human Rights Watch researchers interviewed more than 90 people about the strikes including witnesses, relatives of those killed, lawyers, human rights defenders, and government officials. Human Rights Watch reviewed evidence including ordnance and videos from attack sites. Security concerns prevented visits to four of the attack areas.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    This is from the link I posted, you should read it.

    During six weeks in Yemen in 2012-2013, Human Rights Watch researchers interviewed more than 90 people about the strikes including witnesses, relatives of those killed, lawyers, human rights defenders, and government officials. Human Rights Watch reviewed evidence including ordnance and videos from attack sites. Security concerns prevented visits to four of the attack areas.

    Ah, right Akhmed's brother in law who builds bombs in his toolshed isn't going to say that Maqmhoud planted IEDs...check
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,077 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    This is a quote from you're post.

    " but the claim that we kill more civilians than terrorists is stupid."
    You have yet to learn that smart people do stupid things. Read what you quoted. I'll help with some bold print. " but the claim that we kill more civilians than terrorists is stupid."
    logo_RIF.jpg
    Learn the difference between calling somebody stupid and referring to behavior as stupid.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    You are absolutely wrong that the claim that we kill more civilians than terrorists is stupid. This report by HRW and Amnesty International proves that you are wrong.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,336 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    You are absolutely wrong that the claim that we kill more civilians than terrorists is stupid. This report by HRW and Amnesty International proves that you are wrong.

    Oh that settles it...HRW and Amnesty International are the authoritative experts on the matter.

    FishTX you have been served!
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,077 Senior Member
    I see where the problem is and have to admit it is partly mine. I read the two links and read the HRW methodology. I see where you are coming from. However you are partly to blame. Your thread title is misleading. It should read something along the lines of drones strikes kill more civilians than the drone's targets (terrorists). I read title exactly as written. Terrorists do kill a lot more civilians than drones kill, and you failed to correct my comment addressing that issue.

    Simply put, your title is misleading, and we are arguing two different issues.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    No, the title is not misleading, your reading of it is incorrect. Air and drone strikes do kill more civilians than they kill terrorists. Perhaps I could have made it more clear by saying they kill more civilians than they kill terrorists. Sorry about that.
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,077 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    No, the title is not misleading, your reading of it is incorrect.
    Really? Steven is pretty smart (I'll rue the day I typed this :) ) and his response (post #2) was 3000>57.
    Perhaps I could have made it more clear by saying they kill more civilians than they kill terrorists.
    This sentence sort of contradicts the first one I quoted, doesn't it? :)
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    Steven's 3000 - 57 was a diversion from the subject, drones were not used against the 3000. He's very good at spinning and obfuscating.
  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,077 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Steven's 3000 - 57 was a diversion from the subject, drones were not used against the 3000. He's very good at spinning and obfuscating.

    I read his comment as taking your title the same way I did so we both were arguing from what we thought your thread was about rather than what you intended.
    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,945 Senior Member
    I agree I should have worded the title so that my intent could not be misread, my bad.

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