Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums By 64-146%

MikeAMikeA Senior MemberPosts: 4,128 Senior Member
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Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    Like I said the best way to handle the mandate is to say if you do not have insurance you die.

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/44597/obamacare-california-releases-lower-than-expected-rates-on-obamacare-debunking-conservative-myths
    The announced rates are far below estimates and the average numbers show that a middle-aged Californian could pay anywhere from $40-$300 per month. The wide range includes the variety of benefits offered combined with the use of federal subsidies to pay for healthcare.

    ThinkProgress's Sy Mukherjee reports that millennial Californians looking to buy the cheapest "bronze"-level plan could pay as little as $170 a month before subsidies.

    "These rates are way below the worst-case gloom-and-doom scenarios we have heard," said Peter Lee, executive director of Covered California. Republicans have been drumming up fear of skyrocketing premiums for consumers as recently as last week when House Republicans predicted premium rate hikes as high as 66% for California.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    the average cost of the five cheapest plans was only $92.

    Do you actually believe this figure?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Esurance for health insurance

    $92 a month ... average?

    I can assure you that you wouldn't be happy with that coverage (if it actually exists) if you tried to use it

    rate quotes like that remind me of all sorts of other 'cheap' health insurance and dental insurance on the internet ... it's good for ensuring you get little if any actual coverage ... but you do get the peace of mind of telling yourself you pay for health insurance
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,128 Senior Member
    Do you actually believe this figure?

    I think that was the median cost for an under 25 non smoker. So yea I guess it could be accurate.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    I paid more than that when I was 25 when you consider the employer portion of the insurance.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    the real question is not what a premium costs via esurance but what your actual coverage is ... I'm betting you don't get to choose your own provider and you are looking at a 4 figure deductible
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    Both sides are comparing apples and oranges, nobody is talking about insurance people actually have and what it will cost vs what it currently costs. I suspect there will be an increase, probably what it would be anyway, and it will not be as bad as anybody on the right is suggesting.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,804 Senior Member
    Or you could have insurance stay at the same price, but of lower value (higher deductibles and co-pays.) That's how some employers have dealt with rising insurance costs.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    One of our clients in Los Angeles was told by its insurance rep that the cost of their small group policy would go up by 40% when their renewal date comes up on January 1.

    There's a lot of gaming going on. Some states - California and Arkansas are the poster boys for this - are allowing small groups to renew on December 31, even if that's not the renewal date. The argument here is that under one interpretation of Obamacare, the rules only apply to groups upon the renewal date of the old coverage, not come January 1. This may be faithful to the language but is not faithful to the spirit. The client is going to renew on 12/31.

    Other states are forbidding this or limiting it. For example, Oregon says that buy April 1, all policies have to be in compliance.

    The price of insurance isn't going to go down for anyone except maybe in the few states, like Massachusetts, that already have somewhat similar rules. The cost of insurance for a person may go down due to the subsidy, but that only kicks in if you make less than 4x the federal poverty level and it does grade down. Presumably the good doctor does better than this.

    As for the $92 per month, my guess would be that that's some type of short term medical product which won't cover preventative, mental health, pregnancy, etc. Probably has a couple of thousand deductible as well. Actually, it's not a bad deal. The issue with short term medical is that it's not guaranteed renewable (which really, really cuts down on the cost). Now with the exchanges, you buy it on January 1 and if you get really sick, you enroll on the exchanges during the enrollment period.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    how many of you want to have your auto insurance from 'The General'?

    insurance is like anything else that is sold to a consumer ... it's a 'product' ... just because the price is 'cheap' doesn't neccessarily mean you want it, unless in this case it supports what you want and need to idealogically believe then it's just all the same and it's the mercedes of healthcare
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    but that only kicks in if you make less than 4x the federal poverty level and it does grade down.

    That is like more than half the country.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    That is like more than half the country.

    Naw, not that much.

    Like I said, it grades down. Somebody at 3.5x isn't getting nearly the level of subisidy as somebody at 1.1x.

    Anyway, that still apples to oranges. One can't argue that insurance is cheaper.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Steven wrote: »
    As for the $92 per month, my guess would be that that's some type of short term medical product which won't cover preventative, mental health, pregnancy, etc. Probably has a couple of thousand deductible as well.


    probably an exceptionally finite pool of acceptable providers as well including and especially referable speciality networks ... something to consider for people who talk about 'waiting periods' ... insurance like this typically requires a referral from an accepted primary care network provider and likely comes with a 6 week+ waiting period to see a specialist ... that is after the two or three week wait for an appointment to see a primary care provider

    and then after you see your specialist ... count on the policy to not be renewed
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Naw, not that much.

    Like I said, it grades down. Somebody at 3.5x isn't getting nearly the level of subisidy as somebody at 1.1x.

    Anyway, that still apples to oranges. One can't argue that insurance is cheaper.

    And I would not make that argument. There are three truths, the sun is hot, water is wet and insurance goes up.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I think one of the guys in the article you quoted did make that argument.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    monkeydoes wrote: »
    probably an exceptionally finite pool of acceptable providers as well including and especially referable speciality networks ... something to consider for people who talk about 'waiting periods' ... insurance like this typically requires a referral from an accepted primary care network provider and likely comes with a 6 week+ waiting period to see a specialist ... that is after the two or three week wait for an appointment to see a primary care provider

    and then after you see your specialist ... count on the policy to not be renewed

    Except maybe for the part about non-renewal, none of this is accurate with regards to STMI. FWIW, I cover the two largest players in this product.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    I am not sure where you saw that.
    For now, Oregon's insurance providers have lowered their initial bid for rates, so something's working.

    Is this it?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    "The announced rates are far below estimates and the average numbers show that a middle-aged Californian could pay anywhere from $40-$300 per month. The wide range includes the variety of benefits offered combined with the use of federal subsidies to pay for healthcare."

    It was the author.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    That is not an argument that rates would come down only than they are lower than what was estimated.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    So, just to follow up here.

    It's clearly disingenuous for the Forbes author to use STM plans for comparative purposes, if that's what he did. You can still buy them, btw, but you might have to pay the penalty, so there's an arbitrage involved.

    It also may be very disingenuous for California to compare the cost of the Bronze plan to the cost in the small group market. The actuarial value (AV) of a plan is the amount that a plan would pay out on average as a percent of what the typical American or American family would incur per year in medical expenses. The Bronze plan is mandated to have a 60AV; that's pretty low. My guess would be that the typical small group plan has an AV in the 80s.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    **** I hate to admit this, but that's the first intelligent explanation of what the term "Actuarial Value" actually means in this context. I've attended seminars on teh ACA and couldn't get the speakers to explain the term that clearly, probably because these seminars were all put on by ERISA-oriented folks who think of "Actuarial Value" in terms of plan funding requirements rather than participant benefit issues and so they don't understand it either.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Steven wrote: »
    Except maybe for the part about non-renewal, none of this is accurate with regards to STMI. FWIW, I cover the two largest players in this product.

    for $92 a month you get to see any provider, your choice?

    I have no idea without seeing the plans but I would find it difficult to believe that something you buy off the internet from esurance for less than a $100 would give you exceptional provider availability and selection

    I honestly don't know
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Now go amaze your friends.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    monkeydoes wrote: »
    for $92 a month you get to see any provider, your choice?

    I have no idea without seeing the plans but I would find it difficult to believe that something you buy off the internet from esurance for less than a $100 would give you exceptional provider availability and selection

    I honestly don't know

    Yeah. You could go wherever. Not promising guaranteed renewal really, really cuts down on the cost.

    Ehealth (EHTH). All the providers are on there - Cigna, United Healthcare, Assurant, Wellpoint, Companion, Aetna....
    The Individual Market has gone almost completely to internet or call center fulfillment. In order to protect profitability under Obamacare's minimum loss ratio requirements, the insurers slashed agent commissions by half to 2/3rds. That basically killed your father's health insurance agent. Since he doesn't exist, people go to the 'net.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    I am just concerned about actual coverage......I just got the "bill" for the wrist----$23,000.


    I can't remember which State it was, but it recently implemented it's exchange and the prices were quite low and ...most importantly competitive. If I could remember, I'd post a link. I know it wasn't California...anyone??
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I'm not saying you're misremembering, but I don't remember anything like that. Because of the companies I cover, I've been paying attention.

    Only a few have published rates. The first was Vermont. Only two carriers have agreed to be on the exchange and rates will be up 10%. Vermont already mandates benefits similar to the PPACA so this was just normal insurance inflation.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    As an aside, it's really unlikely that the creation of a state run exchange is going to lower pricing. More individual health insurance policies are sold over Ehealth or Go Health and the like than anywhere else. The same comparative shopping I can do on an exchange, I can do on Ehealth.

    For all intents and purposes, Ehealth is an exchange.

    The benefit to pricing isn't going to be the exchange, it's the MLR requirements that came out of the agents' hides.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,032 Senior Member
    Here's fuel for the fire. I have not followed this debate closely enough to have an opinion, but this blog piece seems to at least attempt objectivity.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/01/the-shocking-truth-about-obamacares-rate-shock/?hpid=z3
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,210 Senior Member
    Do you actually believe this figure?

    Yes. My wife sells health insurance. A lot of people that are under 30, non-smokers, good health etc. are getting major medical insurance plans for $100-$125 a month and the plans also include preventive care. This being individual coverage. Not family.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,350 Senior Member
    My brothers cobra in HI for an individual is $300 / month. My cousin in California was the same. When I was in NY $400.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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