So Obama didn't want to close Gitmo?

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Replies

  • ouzelproouzelpro Senior Member Posts: 5,361 Senior Member
    He has to put Alex Jones' FEMA camps there, that's why.

    I swear, did everyone catch the idiot virus?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I have pustules
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    sherb wrote: »
    Yeah, no **** you have no evidence for that. But feel free to weigh in with your douchebaggery anyway.

    You didn't appreciate me trolling over your trolling line?

    I managed to hook both you and Steven, and I genuinely didn't think I would.

    Okay, since you were foolish enough to take this one seriously, I'll be serious. That talking head you posted is pissed off because Obama is following the same policy he would follow, only doing a better job with the rhetoric. Does it **** of me, as a progressive who disagrees with the underlying policy? Sure, it does. But why would a bunch of pro-detention conservatives give a ****? (I don't know that Wittes is a true conservative, but on security issues he most certainly is). The answer is because he is pissed at losing the rhetorical and political battle, more than he cares about winning the policy battle.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    "Doing a better job with the rhetoric?"

    When did we stop speaking English? His claim is disingenuous. I think you know that.

    If I'm reading you correctly, you don't support the President's policy (and after 5 years, its his) but you support the way he lies about the policy? Strange.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    No, his claim is not necessarily disingenuous. I don't know what's in Obama's mind, but I think that even if you support detention as a policy matter, you could also honestly wnat to close Gitmo. Gitmo is symbolic not just of the place where we have detained our enemies, it is an international symbol as the place where we tortured people who were NOT our enemies (at least not until they were tortured by us), where we have detained hundreds of innocents (or, if not exactly innocent, not deserving of indefinite loss of freedom wihtout process of any kind), where we allowed our publicly proclaimed principles to be so thoroughly ignored that we can no longer profess them with credibility. Closing Gitmo, even if you intend to continue to detain those the admin believes are genuine threats, is a smart thing to do. Couple it with releasing those who are not threats, with legal process for those for whom we can provide it, with all the other things Obama wants to do, and it becomes solid PR as well as good policy (in the minds of folks like Wittes). Wittes is just pissed because Obama came up with a better message to sell Wittes' policy, than Wittes came up with himself.

    What is disingenuous is that when progressives like me bite our tongues because we realize we may not actually know better on issues that could result in the loss of hundreds or thousands of lives, we get called on the carpet for it. I indeed disagree with Obama's policy. If we cannot justify detention of these individuals as criminals, as war criminals, or as enemy combatants under the law of warfare, then unfortunately, I believe we need to let them go. I'm not going to hang my entire political philosophy on that particular issue, but that's what I believe. And if those in power disagree with me, well, I'm not going to deny being relieved that it wasn't my decision to make.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,739 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    "Doing a better job with the rhetoric?"

    When did we stop speaking English? His claim is disingenuous. I think you know that.

    If I'm reading you correctly, you don't support the President's policy (and after 5 years, its his) but you support the way he lies about the policy? Strange.

    Excuse me but when did he lie about the policy?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,271 Senior Member
    I predict 8 pages, at the end of which, we will all be in agreement and have the solution figured out.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Buffco wrote: »
    I predict 8 pages, at the end of which, we will all be in agreement and have the solution figured out.

    I find that offensive.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Change yo' settings fools!
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,878 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    I predict 8 pages, at the end of which, we will all be in agreement and have the solution figured out.

    As it stands, this will be yet another thread gone sideways.

    The solution has been overlooked, the hundred or so that are hunger striking will die of starvation, problem solved.

    ;)

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • yataheyyatahey Senior Member Posts: 5,605 Senior Member
    Let em eat cake. No wait pie. Let em eat pie.
    "When the goin gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,739 Senior Member
    As it stands, this will be yet another thread gone sideways.

    The solution has been overlooked, the hundred or so that are hunger striking will die of starvation, problem solved.

    ;)

    The sad thing is the guys on hunger strikes are the ones we say should be released. The hard **** really are not that willing to die of Allah, ironically enough.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I gave you guys the solution at the top of the last page

    it's the final one

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