The Washington Redskins

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Replies

  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Cripes James. You've maybe watched two NBA games in your entire life. I watch at least two per week during the season.

    Abe Pollin (then the owner) announced that he was changing the name in 1995 due to the level of gun violence in D.C. Admittedly, there wasn't heat like with the Redskins, but there was heat.

    They had a vote-in contest and Wizards was picked.

    Then you want to guess what happened? A mini-controversy erupted in the African American community because Wizard was associated with the KKK.

    And by the way...as a former Datsun owner, I hated the change to Nissan much more than the change from Bullets to Wizards.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,118 Senior Member
    I agree that sometimes people go nuts. But political correctness is an excuse not a cause.

    I used to do a show with kids where we made kids play monkeys, other kids played demons, and there was a portion that took place in the land of the dead. We had African-American parents go nuts over the monkey thing and Christian parents go nuts over the demons and land of the dead thing. It was not political correctness it was people reading way too much into something very trivial.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Steven wrote: »

    Abe Pollin (then the owner) announced that he was changing the name in 1995 due to the level of gun violence in D.C. Admittedly, there wasn't heat like with the Redskins, but there was heat.

    It was still a business decision. When you don't like the business decision you call it "p.c." when you do like the business decision, you call it "entrepreneurial." I'm not questioning what happened, I'm questioning how some people talk about what happened. Labeling it "p.c." tells us more about you than it does about the underlying issue.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Any decision that affects a business is a business decision, so your argument has no value.
    The question is what caused that decision to be made?

    Example: University of North Dakota had been the Fighting Sioux since the Great Depression. UND had the blessing of the of the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe - nobody was complaining.

    The NCAA orders a bunch of schools to change their names, including UND. If they don't, they will not be able to host any post-season play (there's money out the door). UND sues the NCAA (a business decision caused by PC). They settle and UND can keep the name if it can get approval from the Spirit Lake tribe and another tribe - Standing Rock

    Spirit Lakes has a vote among the members. UND wins handily. The Spirit Lake tribe members love the Fighting Sioux.
    Standing Rock's council votes against.

    UND is in the midst of phasing out the Fighting Sioux.
    PC caused a business decision.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,971 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »

    And by the way...as a former Datsun owner, I hated the change to Nissan much more than the change from Bullets to Wizards.

    As an aside, and not to hijack the thread - that ranks as one of the stupidest marketing moves ever. At the time I think Datsun, Toyota and VW were the three top imports by quantity. They have never recovered from that blunder. If it isn't a standard business school case study it ought to be.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Steven wrote: »
    Any decision that affects a business is a business decision, so your argument has no value.
    The question is what caused that decision to be made?

    Example: University of North Dakota had been the Fighting Sioux since the Great Depression. UND had the blessing of the of the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe - nobody was complaining.

    The NCAA orders a bunch of schools to change their names, including UND. If they don't, they will not be able to host any post-season play (there's money out the door). UND sues the NCAA (a business decision caused by PC). They settle and UND can keep the name if it can get approval from the Spirit Lake tribe and another tribe - Standing Rock

    Spirit Lakes has a vote among the members. UND wins handily. The Spirit Lake tribe members love the Fighting Sioux.
    Standing Rock's council votes against.

    UND is in the midst of phasing out the Fighting Sioux.
    PC caused a business decision.

    How is NCAA football doing since then? Making more money for schools than ever? So maybe the NCAA's decision was a smart business decision.

    Like I said, when a business owner decides not to offend a portion of his customers, that's a smart business decision. But when the portion of the customer base involved is native americans or african americans, some people call that "p.c." which tells us more about that person than about the decision.

    Why did the TN Titans become the Titans? Why is the team in Houston now the Texans? In both cases, it's because the franchise owners were worried about turning off some portion of the customer base, and hoped to attract a different portion of that base. Call it "p.c." and we know that you think one or both of those decisions was a bad idea.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    George K wrote: »
    As an aside, and not to hijack the thread - that ranks as one of the stupidest marketing moves ever. At the time I think Datsun, Toyota and VW were the three top imports by quantity. They have never recovered from that blunder. If it isn't a standard business school case study it ought to be.

    I think TOyota's preeminent position has as much to do with its products meeting and even exciting the imagination of buyers to a greater degree than Nissan managed over the intervening years. Nobody ever developed much Datsun brand loyalty. First car I drove was a Datsun, and it was just a car, a cheap, ugly car. The next car I drove was a Honda, and I still like Hondas, even though they are similarly cheap, and often ugly.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,118 Senior Member
    How many new car purchasers even remember the name Datsun?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,115 Senior Member
    Politicians sometimes attempt to draw attention away from real world issues and bang the PC drum...getting worked up about a name or mascot...Way too over the top...Just mere words and nothing more.

    Dallas...Cowboys worldwide should be offended. It's just not PC ya know. :eek:

    My dad had a Datsun truck when I was younger. I own a Nissan truck myself these days. Not many realize that Renault owns Nissan. They have since 1999. I drive a Franco-Japenese truck. How about that?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Jamespio wrote: »
    How is NCAA football doing since then? Making more money for schools than ever? So maybe the NCAA's decision was a smart business decision.

    Like I said, when a business owner decides not to offend a portion of his customers, that's a smart business decision. But when the portion of the customer base involved is native americans or african americans, some people call that "p.c." which tells us more about that person than about the decision.

    Why did the TN Titans become the Titans? Why is the team in Houston now the Texans? In both cases, it's because the franchise owners were worried about turning off some portion of the customer base, and hoped to attract a different portion of that base. Call it "p.c." and we know that you think one or both of those decisions was a bad idea.

    Stupid examples both. Oilers made no sense within the Tennessee context and there was certainly no brand loyalty to the name. There was most definitely brand loyalty to the Bullets. Unlike the Oilers, the Bullets didn't change cities.

    The Texans, unlike the Bullets, were a brand new expansion team. Again, no brand loyalty. They could have come up with anything including the Oilers (Cleveland went back to the Browns).

    As for the NCAA, you can't prove a negative. Would the University of Illinois be bringing in more alumni dollars had it kept Chief Illiniwak? Most definitely. A lot of alumni are still pissed.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Jamespio wrote: »
    In both cases, it's because the franchise owners were worried about turning off some portion of the customer base, and hoped to attract a different portion of that base.

    Can you explain how this relates to either the Texans or Titans name? Who would get turned off because of those names?
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    [QUOTE=Wetdog;123480. It's pretty bad in the U.S....but it's, even worse in Japan...sorry Darrell it's just a fact.[/QUOTE]

    Naw, in Japan women have to make the tea/coffee in offices, but they're rising slowly; woman are still groped like crazy on trains, but women-only cars are in place. And everyone knows women rule the households while the salarymen go off to kill themselves with overwork. It's China where it's horrible.

    ...and BTW, Datsun translates to large nose.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,118 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Politicians sometimes attempt to draw attention away from real world issues and bang the PC drum...getting worked up about a name or mascot...Way too over the top...Just mere words and nothing more.

    Dallas...Cowboys worldwide should be offended. It's just not PC ya know. :eek:

    My dad had a Datsun truck when I was younger. I own a Nissan truck myself these days. Not many realize that Renault owns Nissan. They have since 1999. I drive a Franco-Japenese truck. How about that?

    Walk up to an African American and say hello **** and tell him/her that they are just words.

    The Dallas Cowboys are indeed offensive. Well not so much on the field. But.....
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    Walk up to an African American and say hello **** and tell him/her that they are just words.

    Hear, hear -- like when I hear "Well why can't I say the N word, rappers and blacks use it all the time!" Yeah, right -- go ahead and say it out loud in specific areas of certain cities. I'll pop for the flowers for such brave men.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,118 Senior Member
    Funny thing is I hear white teenagers say it all the time.

    One time I was on the subway when this was happening and I looked at the black guy sitting across from me who looked at me as if to say, "What are ya gonna do?"
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,750 Senior Member
    You don't have to use the "N" word. Just call a black man "boy" and he'll lay a whipping on you.
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    Yeah, and Asian teens and other 'youth' also say it, sheesh. But never in my life has the epithet **** been casually used. I once said it about a guy, "that's one smart ****," and the peeps I was with were shocked into absolute and deadly silence. Hey, I was only rapping...or was I japping?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I tell my daughter she's a **** all the time.

    I can say that. You can't.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Hextall wrote: »
    Can you explain how this relates to either the Texans or Titans name? Who would get turned off because of those names?

    Oilers fans, who don't think Houston's new team should have that name. Tennessee fans who don't think oil has anything to do with Tennessee. Cleveland pisse doff a lot of fans when they took the Browns name. I still insist the Browns are now that team that plays in Baltimore.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,115 Senior Member
    Walk up to an African American and say hello **** and tell him/her that they are just words.

    The Dallas Cowboys are indeed offensive. Well not so much on the field. But.....

    Used to be an African American fellow that worked out in a factory where I once worked. Co-workers in the factory would always ask him "why are you hiding in the shadows?"

    My first thought when I heard it was how horrible...this guy thought it was funny and played along with the joke.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Would it offend ANYONE if Washington's football corporation was called something OTHER THAN it's current name? The answer is no. So basically, anyone who complains that a name change from the Redskins to something non-offensive is a bad idea, is claiming it is better that some people be offended, than that no people be offended. Or, to put it more bluntly, that their own **** over perceived "p.c.-ness" is more important than avoiding a racial epithet. That's some pretty effed up thinking.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Jamespio wrote: »
    Oilers fans, who don't think Houston's new team should have that name. Tennessee fans who don't think oil has anything to do with Tennessee. Cleveland pisse doff a lot of fans when they took the Browns name. I still insist the Browns are now that team that plays in Baltimore.

    The population of people that fall into these offended categories would be pretty insignificant relative to the people that are super-psyched to now have a team (or a return of a team as is the case with Houston). Even more so on a marketing side.

    I think way more people were psyched that the "Browns" returned to Cleveland. I dont' think there's a brown's fan on earth that thinks the Ravens are the browns (and why would they... they despise the owner and want nothign to do with that team anymore that they got the "Browns" back).

    That's quite a stretch.

    I'm cynical enough to realize that most pro teams that change their names do so much more for marketing reasons rather than politeness... so I think you and I are in agreement with that. However, those marketing reasons exist because there's a vocal population that wants the name changed.... which I think is what Steven's suggesting. So your both right and both wrong. ha ha... suckers!

    The outlier though is the Redskins name... which is racist and derogatory. that a professional organization/company still uses it is shameful.

    (note that I"m separating pro teams and the NCAA because the NCAA is a clown organization, bro).
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,115 Senior Member
    Atlanta Braves...Pittsburgh Pirates

    The PC madness never ends...Somali Pirates are angry about this.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Jamespio wrote: »
    Would it offend ANYONE if Washington's football corporation was called something OTHER THAN it's current name? The answer is no.

    I don't think this is true. I think there would be plenty of people bent out of shape if the redskins name was changed. No matter what happens with the name... some people will be pissed. So your dichotomy is false (some people being offended versus no people being offended).

    Those people are douches, and their claim at "offense" is miniscule compared to the continued use of a racist nickname by the Washington team.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    Atlanta Braves...Pittsburgh Pirates

    The PC madness never ends...Somali Pirates are angry about this.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

    Hi Mr. Strawman. I like your hat.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Jamespio wrote: »
    Cleveland pisse doff a lot of fans when they took the Browns name.

    News to me. It was always going to be the Browns. That was part of the deal the city negotiated. It kept the Browns name and Modell had to find a new one.

    Nobody in Tennessee gave a **** for the two years it was the Tennessee Oilers. It's still the Los Angeles Lakers (made a lot more sense when they were in Minneapolis) and the Utah Jazz (I'll never understand why that name was kept)
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,971 Senior Member
    Jamespio wrote: »
    I think TOyota's preeminent position has as much to do with its products meeting and even exciting the imagination of buyers to a greater degree than Nissan managed over the intervening years. Nobody ever developed much Datsun brand loyalty. First car I drove was a Datsun, and it was just a car, a cheap, ugly car. The next car I drove was a Honda, and I still like Hondas, even though they are similarly cheap, and often ugly.

    I have to disagree. At least three very interesting cars were sold as Datsuns in the 1960s: The 1500/2000 roadster, the 240Z and the 510 sedan. The 510 was so much better than its competition, and so much fun to drive that it had its own showroom stock racing series.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,971 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I tell my daughter she's a **** all the time.

    I can say that. You can't.

    Don't get this thread started on **** jokes, it's still interesting as is.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,115 Senior Member
    Hextall wrote: »
    Hi Mr. Strawman. I like your hat.

    Thank you. I use it to keep the sun off so I don't turn a shade of brown...need to be PC ya know. ;)

    So who are these people deciding that redskins is racist and derogatory?

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    There isn't a single economic reason to change the ****'s name and Dan Snyder and the NFL know it.
    However you want to define PC, any change would not be a "business decision."

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