The Washington Redskins

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Replies

  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    "political correctness" is a completely meaningless term. No major sports league team in America would keep a name like "Cotton Pickers" or "Fish Eaters" or "Wops." That so many consider it acceptable to retain a name like "Redskins," and consider an effort to change it to be mere "political correctness" is just a testament to ongoing prejudice against native americans.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    no, political correctness is not "meaningless," it is bull and always will be if it comes from "guilt." Free thinking, rational thought not guilt. You did notice this did you not--(though I don't necessarily agree). Is the word "warriors" offensive?
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Define the term "political correctness" then. I think it means nothign more than "I don't like that," but ifyou can give me a valid definition I'll reconsider.

    I also have to reject your premise that "guilt" is never the result of "free thinking, rational thought." Sometimes guilt is quite rational.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    politically correct
    adj. Abbr. PC
    1. Of, relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, especially to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation.
    2. Being or perceived as being overconcerned with such change, often to the exclusion of other matter

    Noun 1. political correctness - avoidance of expressions or actions that can be perceived to exclude or marginalize or insult people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against
    political correctitude
    correctness - the quality of conformity to social expectations

    I watched it at work in Madison by liberals who with "certitude" attacked anything or anyone who they felt did not live up to their standards. It left a really bad taste in my mouth. Half of the time they had a point, which i would agree with. The other half, was just bunch of "you must be me." Simply arrogant control freaks. They believe that they are right...but too often "it" is about them, how others can see how wonderful they are. They are about guilt and self love all too often. Good can come from such places, but it is more likely to not improve anything....other than benefiting their own self image. I have known many of these people. I used to think that these people men well..now I am not really so sure. Especially when you look at a State like South Dakota, where "Indian" hatred it pretty damned high. You don't change that attitude with guilt, too often that's how you reinforce it.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    So, wetdog, you of all people are saying that you would object to a proposed action because it "relates to or supports broad social, political, and educational change, to redress historical injustices?" Is that what you were saying up above? Because that would seem to run contrary to how you have told us that you have actually lived your life, a life in which you have frequently taken actions precisely because they related to or supported broad social and political change to redress historical injustices.

    In other words, the definitions you just gave me, are NOT how you used the words "political correctness" at the top of this page. At the top of the page you used the phrase "political correctness" to refer to what you believed was a MISGUIDED attempt at correcting injustice. In tgoher words, you used the phrase to mean "an effort I disagree with and don't like." And that is precisely how Fox News uses the term, and how Rush Limbaugh uses the term, and how almost everybody who uses the term uses it. THat's what I mean when I say "p.c." is meaningless. If you used the term as you just defined it, it would have meaning, but you didn't.

    As Madison liberals, I suspect you're talking mainly about college students, and people who have not yet left behind the sensibilities of college students. I'll agree with you they are idiots, who know dam little about persuasion. That their methods are wrong doesn't mean their goals are wrong.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    no. I wished that "stubbornness" had been in line at Marquette. Changing a name from Warriors to Golden Eagles addressed no past "wrongs." You misunderstand me...my writing isn't as clear as I would like it be this morning.

    No not college students...though some may be doctoral candidates. They are/were professionals, the same ones that keep bringing out the most liberal Madison or Milwaukee candidates that are two or three time losers (to a Republican).

    I never said that their goals are 'wrong", I said the opposite, but goals are never met if go go about it in a stupid manner. I see it all the time from our States Liberal dumocratic party and their associates.

    "So, wetdog, you of all people are saying that you would object to a proposed action because it "relates to or supports broad social, political, and educational change, to redress historical injustices?"

    Never said that, never implied that. how "political correctness" can be used in the reAL world can be far different than a dictionary definition. What I am objecting to is not the goal, but rather how and why things are done to achieve that goal by guilt ridden or power longing idiots...Armed with a rational intent but too often taking very thoughtless actions.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    Wetdog wrote: »
    no, political correctness is not "meaningless," it is bull and always will be if it comes from "guilt." Free thinking, rational thought not guilt. You did notice this did you not--(though I don't necessarily agree). Is the word "warriors" offensive?

    Political correctness in this and in many cases is not meaningless, if it prevents you from sounding like an insensitive racist ****.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    sorry I am not an "insensitive racist ****"
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    No but if you insist you should be able to call people what you want to regardless of their feelings on the matter, you sound like one. At the end of the day political correctness is about being polite.

    What you are talking about is an abuse of political correctness. But the idea is still a valid one. And who gives a **** if a team is called the Warriors or not?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    I insisted no such thing.

    You are right that I am talking about abuse.... Who gives a ****? I don't care about the "name"(warriors) itself but is it "racist?" It's not "redskins" is it? I hate falling into the line of acceptability. I despise the pressure to be just like everyone else. Again I am talking about abuse.

    Edit Polite... yes of course. I remember a guy introducing a woman named Sally to a group--"Let me introduce Ms Sally Myers..." Sally Myers would have been sufficient. Same guy told me how he would introduce himself to every black person he saw, so they would know he wasn't a racist. They wouldn't have thought about him for a second if he had just walked by without saying anything. I object to pure and unadulterated idiots.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    There is no pressure to be just like everyone else only to avoid insulting entire races of people. Sometimes I think most of the people who say, "I hate political correctness" are engaging in a form of political correctness.

    As to Warriors, I see the point, but the other side is that it was used for a time to paint Native people as blood thirsty savages.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    There is no pressure to be just like everyone else only to avoid insulting entire races of people. Sometimes I think most of the people who say, "I hate political correctness" are engaging in a form of political correctness.

    As to Warriors, I see the point, but the other side is that it was used for a time to paint Native people as blood thirsty savages.


    A team, any team,who calls themselves 'warriors" are not talking "blood thirsty savages", but basically meaning one who will fight to the end..as a true "warrior" would. The bloodthirsty aspect comes from the minds that want to see it in their own way. Warrior is a sign of respect. Those that were racist wouldn't refer to NAs as Warriors, but as blood thirsty savages.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Wetdog wrote: »
    I object to pure and unadulterated idiots.

    And, yet, you stick around The Lodge for all these years?

    Hypocrite!
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Jamespio wrote: »
    And, yet, you stick around The Lodge for all these years?

    Hypocrite!

    I bow to that post! Great one!
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I don't care what they call themselves. I don't recollect ever having heard any Native American complain about the name just like had never heard any native American complain about North Dakota's hockey team either.


    Sent from my HTC One X

    Then you weren't paying attention ... Plenty of native groups complained about the 'Fighting Sioux' moniker
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    Here's my point

    -- none of these team/school names in question CAME FROM THE NATIVE AMERICANS, warriors, braves or otherwise. Am sure if they could have naming rights they'd pick something to stick in your craw sideways.

    What's more, We, speaking on behalf of all non-white and mixed-race Americans, hereby tell you invaders from Europe to leave, take your trash with you and leave your nubile, pale daughters.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    You do realize that your DNA is not native to this soil also right, when are you packing?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    ya I'd like my great grandma's land back
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    I am related to the First Peoples who walked the land bridge, and established the first sushi bars on the West Coast, ahem. We served beached whale when it was okay to do so.

    Proof? It's in the shovel-shaped incisor. Bet the rest of yours are flat.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    That is a specious link at best.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Wetdog wrote: »
    Same guy told me how he would introduce himself to every black person he saw, so they would know he wasn't a racist. They wouldn't have thought about him for a second if he had just walked by without saying anything.

    About 12 years ago, I had a Research Associate named D'Auran. African-American. D' was about 6'3", so much bigger than me.

    I go visit a company in KC that we're thinking about picking up coverage on and bring D' with me. The secretary ushers us into this big conference room and after a bit, the senior management team of this firm comes in. All white guys, early to late 50s.

    They introduce themselves and start shaking hands before we can say anything. "Hi Steven, Hi D'Auran. Hi Steven, Hi D'Auran...."

    We get done shaking hands, and D'Auran says, out loud, "How come nobody ever thinks I'm Steven?"

    These guys nearly sh-t their pants, I kid you not. They had no idea what to do or say until they noticed I was laughing my **** off.
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    You people know how to tell a joke.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Steven wrote: »
    We get done shaking hands, and D'Auran says, out loud, "How come nobody ever thinks I'm Steven?"

    what's was the answer?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Flykuni wrote: »
    I am related to the First Peoples who walked the land bridge, and established the first sushi bars on the West Coast, ahem. We served beached whale when it was okay to do so.

    Proof? It's in the shovel-shaped incisor. Bet the rest of yours are flat.

    actually I have to say that I have long noticed (especially among the northern Plains and Pacific northwest) numerous physical and linguistic inflection similarities
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Flykuni wrote: »
    You people know how to tell a joke.

    Hey Kuni? You see your mayor put up four burritos, among other things, from El Tepeyac in his hockey bet with our mayor? It's gonna be good to be Rahm.
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    Ha, that's a good one. But sorry, hockey does zero for this boy. It's just faster curling.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,914 Senior Member
    One definition of Political correctness is referring to "Indians" as "Native Americans" or worse, "First People". They are neither. If you don't like "Johnnies Come Earlier" try "Them What was Here When Europeans Arrived". :p
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • FlykuniFlykuni Senior Member Posts: 799 Senior Member
    I'm more firster than you...and who has flat incisors here?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    I'm more firster ... your guys stayed behind
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,871 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    One definition of Political correctness is referring to "Indians" as "Native Americans" or worse, "First People". They are neither. If you don't like "Johnnies Come Earlier" try "Them What was Here When Europeans Arrived". :p

    My definition is call people what they want to be called. Usually their first name.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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