Guns used in shooting of fireman obtained illegally

2

Replies

  • Too easy. :D

    Low hanging fruit of the day. :D
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    Watch the video, it is very clear who shot first. Wikipedia is a user provided site. You get enough gun nuts out there and conspiracy theorists contributing content and you can get all manner of mess. The next thing you know Wikipedia will tell you the Lizard people did it.

    David Koresh murdered those children. When an officer of the law shows up at your door with a warrant you surrender. Only an insane idiot would think they have a right to bunker down and begin murdering police officers.

    Let me also add not only do you not have the right to shoot an officer who has come to your door with the letters "ATF" displayed as bold as you please. You do not even have the right to draw down on them.

    Jack would tell us they could have apprehended him in town. Yeah that's it, have a shoot out at the local supermarket. Plus there was evidence to retrieve. I love how so many are marvelous tactical planners in hindsight especially when they do not have to answer for the consequences of their decisions.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Well we did make it illegal to walk into a bank wearing a gun. I suspect that helped a bit.

    I don't know does it? If you are going to rob a bank (illegal in the first place) do you real care if you are going to get "in more trouble" if you bring a gun?

    I guess it is pretty hard if not impossible to quantify, and I'm sure there probably has been at least one person out there (maybe that is a bit, I don't know) that maybe didn't do it because of it.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,583 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    I don't know does it? If you are going to rob a bank (illegal in the first place) do you real care if you are going to get "in more trouble" if you bring a gun?

    I guess it is pretty hard if not impossible to quantify, and I'm sure there probably has been at least one person out there (maybe that is a bit, I don't know) that maybe didn't do it because of it.
    Some criminals do avoid carrying firearms for some crimes because of higher sentencing.
  • Anyone who thinks gun laws are not strictly enforced is listening to political noise and not dealing with reality. They are enforced to the extent possible. But the same constitution that grants you the right to own a belt-fed M60E3 protects wayward citizens from overly intrusive police activity. Its just not that easy to catch and convict someone of any crime in America, let alone gun possession. There's lawyers involved, after all.

    That said, you catch the attention of the federal government (i.e use or display a gun during an illicit drug transaction) and they will lock you up and throw away the key. Trust me, they do not screw around.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    I don't know does it? If you are going to rob a bank (illegal in the first place) do you real care if you are going to get "in more trouble" if you bring a gun?

    No but now you can be apprehended at the door.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Where do you guys get the idea that we don't enforce the gun laws we have? I have heard that my whole life. I want to know where it comes from.

    1) David Gregory is still out and only "subject to an investigation" despite clear evidence of a violation of gun laws. Any "regular" citizen would already be in jail facing a serious problem. Deals are clearly in play behind the scenes, and the clear "gun laws" in this case are pretty clearly being either negotiated or dismissed with some nonsense about how this is "different".

    2)
    sherb wrote: »
    In state court, if I can get a plea that guarantees a conviction and I have to dump the gun charge, I will.

    I want those gun charges prosecuted vigorously. Ruthlessly.

    YMMV, and I'll defer to your experience and knowledge, but I want that gun charge added to whatever else you can get, rather than used as a bargaining chip.

    3) http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20121229/ARTICLES/121229649

    4) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/18/gun-charges-dropped-against-rolando-mcclain/

    5) http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/03/charges-dropped-against-conn-lawyer-who-brought-gun-to-dark-knight-movie/

    6) http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/12/gun-charges-dropped-against-tea-party-leader/

    7) http://medvinlaw.com/alexandria-virginia-state-federal-criminal-defense-lawyer-attorney-law-firm/juvenile-defense-weapons-firearms-charges-dropped-with-plea-to-hunting-violations-fairfax-virginia/

    8) http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/felony_charges_dropped_hotel_maryland_1PwnsvNxwG5ucqCK5BnxbO

    9) http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-many-arrested-few-prosecuted-guns-a/nR96w/

    10) http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/04/02/drug_gun_charges_against_d4l_rapper_drop

    11) http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/tenn_woman_gets_gun_jail_deal_after_dofHcAmB3njjQb8nYTQWXP#ixzz1pbS9b8AW

    12) http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=38947

    13) http://www.ohmidog.com/2010/03/26/gun-charges-dropped-in-dog-burning-case/

    14) http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/30/3848132/attorney-who-carried-gun-through.html

    15) http://thedisneyblog.com/2008/06/04/charges-dropped-against-grandma-who-brought-gun-to-walt-disney-world/

    16) http://obscurestore.typepad.com/obscure_store_and_reading/2008/07/update-charges.html

    17) http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/042007/04282007/279797

    18) http://articles.herald-mail.com/2008-09-25/news/25058900_1_hagerstown-man-felony-charges-handgun

    19) http://articles.mcall.com/1997-01-11/news/3138070_1_easton-firearms-charges

    20) http://triblocal.com/grayslake/2010/08/31/remaining-charges-dropped-against-man-who-killed-dog/

    ...that last one's a bell ringer....a felon who shoots a dog is given 20 months on that charge, but they drop the gun charges for "...about 20 weapons at his home...". This sounds like the kind of nut who, 5 years down the road, will do something like the firefighter incident. Pretty clearly not socially well adjusted, at the least....

    No, I did not thoroughly vet each of the above examples above as I am only trying to explain "where it comes from". To laymen who are not aware of the complexity of the lay, or how it is applied, all the stories I linked to above either sound like a deal was cut, or famous people were let off the hook, or politics stepped in....that may be wrong, but that is the impression.

    I left out several stories where law enforcement had somehow fouled up the case (improper search, etc.) and a few where, honestly.

    There's a couple (maybe more) where the law being violated probably needs to be looked at, and some where the decision looks like it was indeed "common sense".

    ...but it is stories like the above that give the public the idea that gun laws are not enforced.

    Whoops: Forgot to insert "And now a pause for for a pointless picture, or distracting quip that adds nothing to the topic except an shallow attempt to drive wedges between people or just generally **** people off".

    How could I forget?
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • tumblr_lols30rUm71qeiwtao1_500.gif
  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    Watch the video, it is very clear who shot first. Wikipedia is a user provided site. You get enough gun nuts out there and conspiracy theorists contributing content and you can get all manner of mess. The next thing you know Wikipedia will tell you the Lizard people did it.

    There's also all kinds of not-gun-nuts and non-conspiriacy theorists contributing.
    David Koresh murdered those children. When an officer of the law shows up at your door with a warrant you surrender. Only an insane idiot would think they have a right to bunker down and begin murdering police officers.

    Of course he did. But to even suggest that the ATF could not have handled the situation better - much better - isn't reasonable, IMO.
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,873 Senior Member
    1) David Gregory is still out and only "subject to an investigation" despite clear evidence of a violation of gun laws. Any "regular" citizen would already be in jail facing a serious problem. Deals are clearly in play behind the scenes, and the clear "gun laws" in this case are pretty clearly being either negotiated or dismissed with some nonsense about how this is "different".

    Perhaps you should start a petition and see if you can get him canned, then deported or maybe even secede from reality. That seems to be what all the cool guys are doing now.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    Perhaps you should start a petition and see if you can get him canned, then deported or maybe even secede from reality. That seems to be what all the cool guys are doing now.

    And that added exactly what to the discussion? Other than the personal poke, I mean?
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,873 Senior Member
    And that added exactly what to the discussion? Other than the personal poke, I mean?

    What is your problem today?

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    1) David Gregory is still out and only "subject to an investigation" despite clear evidence of a violation of gun laws.

    Why is it that first amendment is so allusive to defenders of the second amendment?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • And if the drug laws in this country were prosecuted as vigorously as FN suggest Lumpttest fat **** would be sitting in prison today. The real world is not that black and white.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,873 Senior Member
    Pierce Morgan is perfect example of "the first amendment is ok as long as you say what is acceptable" otherwise we'll deport you for expressing your opinion.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • Seems that the President of the NRA thinks the David Gregory investigation thing is. "Silly". Now where have I heard that word used before?
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,873 Senior Member
    All those that have convicted and sentenced Gregory before the investigation is complete are the same ones that want Morgan out of the country.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    There's also all kinds of not-gun-nuts and non-conspiriacy theorists contributing.



    Of course he did. But to even suggest that the ATF could not have handled the situation better - much better - isn't reasonable, IMO.

    You know what is seriously not reasonable? Calling the guys that were murdered by that *** **** son of a *****, jackbooted thugs. If he had complied like a normal citizen, none of this would have happened. So no I do not think it is reasonable to question in hindsight how it should have been handled better. That is for the ATF to determine. Not a bunch of gun nuts on a nutter website.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • greenman wrote: »
    Seems that the President of the NRA thinks the David Gregory investigation thing is. "Silly". Now where have I heard that word used before?

    Oh wait it was right here.
    I heard some silliness that Gregory effectively admitted to a felony (lied to get a Colorado driver's license) and was seen on-air with an illegal in DC large cap magazine. Any truth to either?

    So it was silliness,................... now it's a deadly serious matter that should have him locked away.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,873 Senior Member
    greenman wrote: »
    Seems that the President of the NRA thinks the David Gregory investigation thing is. "Silly". Now where have I heard that word used before?
    I heard some silliness that Gregory effectively admitted to a felony (lied to get a Colorado driver's license) and was seen on-air with an illegal in DC large cap magazine. Any truth to either?

    That is interesting. You would have thought the Wayner was smart enough to have seen that illegal clip, magazine, doohickey drum thingamabob right away. If he was at all representing the little guy out there with his hunting rifles and stuff, he would have said; "Gosh Dave, it looks to me like that large capacity magazine you have there is illegal"

    That would have ended the discussion right there and made the Wayner a hero.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • Yea the gooder guy without the gun part.
  • 1) David Gregory is still out and only "subject to an investigation" despite clear evidence of a violation of gun laws. Any "regular" citizen would already be in jail facing a serious problem. Deals are clearly in play behind the scenes, and the clear "gun laws" in this case are pretty clearly being either negotiated or dismissed with some nonsense about how this is "different".

    2)

    I want those gun charges prosecuted vigorously. Ruthlessly.

    YMMV, and I'll defer to your experience and knowledge, but I want that gun charge added to whatever else you can get, rather than used as a bargaining chip.

    3) http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20121229/ARTICLES/121229649

    4) http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/18/gun-charges-dropped-against-rolando-mcclain/

    5) http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/03/charges-dropped-against-conn-lawyer-who-brought-gun-to-dark-knight-movie/

    6) http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/12/gun-charges-dropped-against-tea-party-leader/

    7) http://medvinlaw.com/alexandria-virginia-state-federal-criminal-defense-lawyer-attorney-law-firm/juvenile-defense-weapons-firearms-charges-dropped-with-plea-to-hunting-violations-fairfax-virginia/

    8) http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/felony_charges_dropped_hotel_maryland_1PwnsvNxwG5ucqCK5BnxbO

    9) http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/9-investigates-many-arrested-few-prosecuted-guns-a/nR96w/

    10) http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/04/02/drug_gun_charges_against_d4l_rapper_drop

    11) http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/tenn_woman_gets_gun_jail_deal_after_dofHcAmB3njjQb8nYTQWXP#ixzz1pbS9b8AW

    12) http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=38947

    13) http://www.ohmidog.com/2010/03/26/gun-charges-dropped-in-dog-burning-case/

    14) http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/30/3848132/attorney-who-carried-gun-through.html

    15) http://thedisneyblog.com/2008/06/04/charges-dropped-against-grandma-who-brought-gun-to-walt-disney-world/

    16) http://obscurestore.typepad.com/obscure_store_and_reading/2008/07/update-charges.html

    17) http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/042007/04282007/279797

    18) http://articles.herald-mail.com/2008-09-25/news/25058900_1_hagerstown-man-felony-charges-handgun

    19) http://articles.mcall.com/1997-01-11/news/3138070_1_easton-firearms-charges

    20) http://triblocal.com/grayslake/2010/08/31/remaining-charges-dropped-against-man-who-killed-dog/

    ...that last one's a bell ringer....a felon who shoots a dog is given 20 months on that charge, but they drop the gun charges for "...about 20 weapons at his home...". This sounds like the kind of nut who, 5 years down the road, will do something like the firefighter incident. Pretty clearly not socially well adjusted, at the least....

    No, I did not thoroughly vet each of the above examples above as I am only trying to explain "where it comes from". To laymen who are not aware of the complexity of the lay, or how it is applied, all the stories I linked to above either sound like a deal was cut, or famous people were let off the hook, or politics stepped in....that may be wrong, but that is the impression.

    I left out several stories where law enforcement had somehow fouled up the case (improper search, etc.) and a few where, honestly.

    There's a couple (maybe more) where the law being violated probably needs to be looked at, and some where the decision looks like it was indeed "common sense".

    ...but it is stories like the above that give the public the idea that gun laws are not enforced.

    Whoops: Forgot to insert "And now a pause for for a pointless picture, or distracting quip that adds nothing to the topic except an shallow attempt to drive wedges between people or just generally **** people off".

    How could I forget?

    I didn't read all of these, but the first three were as expected. The first one looks like an illegal search; the second conviction was overturned on appeal, and the third link (oh the irony) the police wrongfully detained a guy who was legally within his rights to carry a firearm. So thanks for proving my point.
  • First rule of conservatism: I will only deal with reality as it actually exists. I will not truck in ideology, political hackery, interest group talking points, ouija boards, divining rods or anything else unmoored from the actual workings of the world we live in. And the reality is that gun laws, like all laws, are hard to enforce-but not for want of trying.
  • Potd.

    ..............
  • Pierce Morgan is perfect example of "the first amendment is ok as long as you say what is acceptable" otherwise we'll deport you for expressing your opinion.

    Peirce Morgan can suck it...just kidding lets not go down that path again.

    Will I don't agree with him I don't get the calls for his deportation, frankly this is absurd.
  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    Why is it that first amendment is so allusive to defenders of the second amendment?

    It's OK to commit a felony as long as you're exercising your fist amendment rights? Can you show me where it says that?
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    greenman wrote: »
    And if the drug laws in this country were prosecuted as vigorously as FN suggest Lumpttest fat **** would be sitting in prison today. The real world is not that black and white.

    Yes, he would be, and that would be a thing worth celebrating.
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    ...I do not think it is reasonable to question in hindsight how it should have been handled better. That is for the ATF to determine.

    You mean like The new ATF Director, John Magaw did? OK
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    Pierce Morgan is perfect example of "the first amendment is ok as long as you say what is acceptable" otherwise we'll deport you for expressing your opinion.
    I went and checked....I don't see anyone on this site advocating Morgan be deported....
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,579 Senior Member
    It's OK to commit a felony as long as you're exercising your fist amendment rights? Can you show me where it says that?

    He is a journalist. Displaying that chingadera while offensive to your delicate sensitivities was used to make a journalistic point. So yeah it is right there in the freedom of the press.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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