Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    I would assume all of them.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    The real issue is not that they grease palms. The real issue is that corn is tied directly to votes in the Midwest. Too many people make their living on ethanol.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,007 Senior Member
    Probably all of them. It's the American way.

    p.s. Why do you think we subsidize production and have the ridiculous requirement to use inefficient corn-based ethanol in the first place? Sugar cane (and perhaps beet) ethanol makes economic sense, corn-based production does not
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • so let's see first they (the states) demanded it and now they don't want it ... got it check

    so much for being the Saudi Arabia of renewable ethanol energy

    BTW, Tim Pawlenty campaigned on a platform that one of his agendas in a national office would be to immediately mandate that the blends be increased nationwide ... now there is foresight for ya
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    The thing that drives me crazy is the environmental damage caused by this **** and the perceived notion that it is green energy.

    Not only does it take mass amounts of energy, land and water resources to produce it, when used in cars the gas mileage decreases 2-3 MPG. Meaning more stops at the gas station.

    From a full tank of non-ethanol gas in my truck I can run to 420 miles before its on E. Ethanol gas reduces that to 360 miles. Even the reduced price at the pump for ethanol doesn't offset the decreased mileage.



    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
  • joekrz wrote: »
    The thing that drives me crazy is the environmental damage caused by this **** and the perceived notion that it is green energy.

    It goes down by far more than 2-3 miles per gallon

    and why do you think BP changed it's logo and branding to a sunflower at about the same time ethanol became the rage and we were all going to have .99 a gallon gas?

    I'll wager you the average Foxateer and Limbabuhutt still think it's the key to independence from foreign oil (along with drilling oil wells in their own backyards)
  • I likes me the coal commercial where they tell us that using more coal will produce energy independence. Anybody driving steam powered cars these days. Did Stanley come out with a coal fired hybrid?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    Funny thing is that I have not seen any ethanol blend here. Why is that?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • You don't have as many large farm corporations to keep happy with public teet payoffs.
  • I would assume all of them.

    Is that like "they all do it"
  • Mostly corn belt states.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    Funny thing is that I have not seen any ethanol blend here. Why is that?

    Thank your governor...

    http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/transportation/bill-bars-corn-ethanol-from-state-alt-fuels-program.html
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    monkeydoes wrote: »
    It goes down by far more than 2-3 miles per gallon


    2-3 mpg is what I have calculated on my own 2 vehicles and are what I am hearing from friends also. Might be worse on other vehicles.
    I'll wager you the average Foxateer and Limbabuhutt still think it's the key to independence from foreign oil (along with drilling oil wells in their own backyards)

    At the other end of the spectrum I have some rather liberal friends who think "it's the right thing to do" because it's "green energy". Then when I explain to them all of harm it does to the land and water resources along with decreased gas mileage you get, I get the deer in the headlights look followed by a "huh...I'll have to check into that".
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Engines have an operating efficiency of around 20% which is the real problem.. Fooling around with different fuels is really just a gimmick..


    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • Further NorthFurther North Senior Member Posts: 1,699 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    The thing that drives me crazy is the environmental damage caused by this **** and the perceived notion that it is green energy.

    I was out in SD the year the most recent attack of ethanol fever chewed up former CRP land...the amount of habitat that got plowed under some of it with 20+ year old trees on it) made me ill.

    I don't even want to think about the increased use of fertilizer and run-off damage to ground water and streams...I'm surprised the algae hasn't reached critical mass and become sentient....

    I get about the same mileage penalty with the SnAABlazer that you do - it's about an 11% mileage penalty...to the point that paying 7.5% more for premium 100% gas is actually cheaper. Imagine ho much it'd suck with E85.

    When we bought a Ford Focus this fall to cut back on gas usage (still need the SnAABlazer to pull the boat, but at **** near $4/gallon gas I sure don't need to drive it every day) I was delighted to find on that was not a "Flex-Fuel" vehicle.
    "Just because I criticize your argument doesn't mean that I disagree with your position."
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,007 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Is that like "they all do it"

    Sorta, except that the independently filthy rich may or may not do it, as may be their wont. The rest have to do it because of the cost of running for office these days (thanks to our Supreme Court). I doubt that Messrs Koch, Soros, Adelson et. al. give away millions without wanting more than an autographed photo in return. :p
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • Brian D.Brian D. Senior Member Posts: 4,011 Senior Member
    greenman wrote: »
    I likes me the coal commercial where they tell us that using more coal will produce energy independence. Anybody driving steam powered cars these days. Did Stanley come out with a coal fired hybrid?

    In fairness, where do you think the electricity comes from for electric cars? A lot comes from coal.


    Sent from my SPH-M580 using Tapatalk 2
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,899 Senior Member
    So tell me, what the hell is "clean coal?" We here in Montana suffer through political finger pointing at those who want to destroy the clean coal industry, and during the campaigning it was unbearable. I've since learned that most of the coal mined here ends up in China. The coal industry is pushing for major expansion including the railroads.

    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-11-12/montana-coal-railroad-line-faces-federal-review

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Is that like "they all do it"

    Yes.......
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    So tell me, what the hell is "clean coal?"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_coal

    In a nutshell reduced emissions from coal plants that produce electricity.

    A very good friend of mine works at the WPS plant in Weston, WI. His job (and many others) are on the line because of the EPA regulations that force them to spend $$$ to install the equipment for reduced emissions. It's rumored that they may not spend the money and just close the place. He's supposed to find out in April if he will still have a job or not.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,899 Senior Member
    Heh... it was sort of a rhetorical question Joe. I know what it's touted to be, but I'm skeptical...

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
    Only way to have "clean" coal is to leave it in the **** ground. Build nukes.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,899 Senior Member
    Deja Vu...

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,007 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Only way to have "clean" coal is to leave it in the **** ground. Build nukes.

    Living about 50 miles from the Three Mile Island and Peach Bottom plants I am not all that enthusiastic about nuclear. Hydro, solar and wind is a better bet for the future. Our electric co-op already gets about a third of its power from hydro.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.

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