Is requiring an ID to vote racist?

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Replies

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    Because the law says you can vote only if you are a citizen and that you can vote only once. Without requiring a government issued photo ID we cannot assure that this is happening, nor can we measure how much fraud is ocurring or being attempted.

    Nobody complains when photo ID is required to board a plane, cash a check, buy booze or cigarettes, or check into a Motel 6. But require it to vote and the folks on the left object big time. Witness E.J. Dionne.
    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/jun/20/e-j-dionne-suppression-ultimate-goal-of-voter/

    Turn it around. Can you provide a good argument why photo ID should not be a requirement for voting when it is a requirement for so many other transactions in our country? Given the vital importance of the vote's outcome, is there a good reason to leave it open to doubt about its validity?

    I didn't start this thread as a troll. I was honestly perplexed by the outrage about voter ID I had seen from people like Dionne and was looking for the thinking that underlies it.

    In a world where we are all being honest and impartial, I don't think there would be any argument about this. The responses to this thread lead me to increase my belief, though, that those who lean left know or suspect they are benefitting from voter fraud and want to preserve the staus quo.

    Sorry but a government issued ID is not a requirement for citizenship and this is a non-issue because people have to register, there is pretty much no voter fraud occurring.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    bakerloo wrote: »
    Forget the voter ID card. I think you should have to show both a W-2 and the deed or mortgage to a piece of property.

    why not just complete this post by taking the country 'back' like Teavangelists want and have them prove themselves to be white and male too

    (FTR a 'mortgage' is not ownership of property so technically you'd be disqualified and should allow the bank to use your vote to cast as your proxy)
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Clearly when you tell people you are from Wizz-skonnzin, they are not surprised
    joekrz wrote: »
    My wife makes us stay at nicer places. hampton-inn-entrance.jpg
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    I didn't start this thread as a troll.

    that you haven't bothered to read any of the responses and simple keep stating the same thing over and over again disputes this claim 'raights chere'
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,899 Senior Member
    monkeydoes wrote: »
    Clearly when you tell people you are from Wizz-skonnzin, they are not surprised

    Hey wait a minute Mr. Stereotyper...

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • yataheyyatahey Senior Member Posts: 5,605 Senior Member
    Obama should agree to a voter ID bill. That'll put an end to it for good.
    "When the goin gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
  • ouzelproouzelpro Senior Member Posts: 5,361 Senior Member
    So, bring me up to speed: the Hampton Inn is low brow, or a step up?
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,899 Senior Member
    ouzelpro wrote: »
    So, bring me up to speed: the Hampton Inn is low brow, or a step up?

    I don't know, but they make you show ID

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    ouzelpro wrote: »
    So, bring me up to speed: the Hampton Inn is low brow, or a step up?

    everywunn knoweds dat Applebee's is sit down fancee eatins
  • M1911A1M1911A1 Senior Member Posts: 136 Senior Member
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    Because the law says you can vote only if you are a citizen and that you can vote only once. --- In a world where we are all being honest and impartial, I don't think there would be any argument about this. The responses to this thread lead me to increase my belief, though, that those who lean left know or suspect they are benefitting from voter fraud and want to preserve the staus quo.


    left out a THIRD category: misinformed believer that likes bein lied to.

    'faith is more important than stats & facts '

    I know you want real bad for me to take you serious but its stupid partisan CRAP just like this that has me jump hoops just to walk out the door to shoot
    "Its like I always tell ya kid, you gotta fight when you think its the right thing to do. Otherwise, you feel like your guts full of ****. Even if you get the hell beat outta ya, if ya fight, ya feel ok about it."
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    my belief, though, that those who lean left know or suspect they are benefitting from voter fraud and want to preserve the staus quo.

    like 1911

    Show your work (knowing full well you likely have never depended upon a fact in formulating an opinion in your life)

    Please bring us your statistics on how this has benefited 'the left' and it's only the left that has committed voter fraud ... or as you put it status quo.

    Oh??? have you been pursued and had spells cast upon you by any witches lately?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    How many people of those who somehow could possibly be disenfranchised by having to show ID actually vote now?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    Apparently enough to scare Republicans

    BTW it is not just voter ID these guys want. They want to make it so that students from out of state cannot vote where they are currently living. Shorten the polling booth hours and in states where they have multi-day voting close down the polls on Sundays. They want to squash the vote of people that tend to vote Democrat.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • dryfliedryflie Senior Member Posts: 1,442 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    How many people of those who somehow could possibly be disenfranchised by having to show ID actually vote now?

    It's been said that 11% of possible voters do not have an official ID. How many actually vote is not known nor is it relevant.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
  • yataheyyatahey Senior Member Posts: 5,605 Senior Member
    There are also tighter restrictions on voter registration. The ACLU is suing the State of Florida, whose criminal governor Rick Scott signed into law, placing new hardships on groups who register new voters.
    http://www.ccsouthfla.org/ACLU%20Sues%20to%20Stop%20Elections%20Law.pdf
    "When the goin gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
  • bakerloobakerloo Banned Posts: 980 Senior Member
    monkeydoes wrote: »
    why not just complete this post by taking the country 'back' like Teavangelists want and have them prove themselves to be white and male too

    (FTR a 'mortgage' is not ownership of property so technically you'd be disqualified and should allow the bank to use your vote to cast as your proxy)

    I wrote: and the deed or mortgage to a piece of property.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory."
    Aldo Leopold
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    dryflie wrote: »
    Those of us on the left do not see this issue as an attempt to prevent fraud but rather as a way to prevent or dissuade the poor, the young, the elderly, typical democrat voters, from voting. By requiring an ID and more frequently early registration you put obstacles in the way of people and hinder their ability to vote. For every possible fraudulent voter you might catch you prevent 100 legitimate people from voting.

    MONKEYBUTT DISCLAIMER: I have no axe to grind regarding this issue. I could care less either way on the subject of Voter ID

    A quick google search revealed the following:

    A study by the University of Missouri on turnout in Indiana showed that turnout actually increased by about 2 percentage points overall in Indiana in 2006 in the first election after the voter ID law went into effect.[17] There was no evidence that counties with higher percentages of minority, poor, elderly, or less-educated populations suffered any reduction in voter turnout. In fact, "the only consistent and statistically significant impact of photo ID in Indiana is to increase voter turnout in counties with a greater percentage of Democrats relative to other counties."[18]

    More on it here:

    http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Articles-c-2011-07-13-254408.112112-Studies-show-voter-photo-ID-does-not-reduce-voter-turnout-but-that-it-does-reduce-fraud.html

    Factual or not? Don't know. I didn't do any further digging.

    Carry on...
  • yataheyyatahey Senior Member Posts: 5,605 Senior Member
    The only fair way to enact a voter ID law would be if every existing registered voter were mailed (or could easily obtain from say a motor vehicle office) a state issued voter ID card free of charge and every newly registered voter be issued one upon processing of his registration, also free of charge. Let's see how many states want to foot the bill for that kind of law.
    I still wouldn't like it as it would add another level of government intrusion into the private lives of citizens. The baggers should be on board with that one too.
    "When the goin gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    Did the size of the electorate also increase by 2% or more?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • nimrodnimrod Senior Member Posts: 756 Senior Member
    I think we should just have our voter ID implanted in our hand. That way we could vote, pay our bills, and document our existence whenever needed. Or maybe someone from the tea party can explain how a voter ID is not more government interference in our lives. Or how republicans running in a dem primary is not real voter fraud like happened in Wisconsin last week. Can I just say that republicans are sounding like anti government terrorists. Whatever happened to flagwaving...oh, yeah, that was when shrub was president. I say anyone who voted for that midget should lose their right to vote. And voter ID can help us take it away from them...
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    nimrod wrote: »
    I think we should just have our voter ID implanted in our hand. That way we could vote, pay our bills, and document our existence whenever needed. Or maybe someone from the tea party can explain how a voter ID is not more government interference in our lives. Or how republicans running in a dem primary is not real voter fraud like happened in Wisconsin last week. Can I just say that republicans are sounding like anti government terrorists. Whatever happened to flagwaving...oh, yeah, that was when shrub was president. I say anyone who voted for that midget should lose their right to vote. And voter ID can help us take it away from them...

    Try running that idea past the Religious Right. "Mark of Da Debil, Mark of Da Debi" would be the cry.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    ...

    I think you mean 'Mark of the Beast'


    when it's a government issued 'Id' it's just a mark for 'those people'


    always makes me laugh that the people who chirp about this stuff are the usual suspects who day to day drone on about the oppression of Big Gubbmint and the usurping of 'mah raights' by and intrusive Big Brother ... except ... for when it comes to 'watching' what other people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms and of course for going after 'those people' they just know are causing all the trouble

    (still waiting for Mr Raights to back up his conventional 'wisdom' with any actual data and we will likely hear from him or Buford on how all statistics lie before we see any actual proof of the '****' umption)
  • TrootfisherTrootfisher Senior Member Posts: 901 Senior Member
    dryflie wrote: »
    Many poor people do not own cars or drive, they have no need for a license and may not have the money to get one. Many elderly people no longer drive and do not have a license. A (small) percentage of college age students do not drive and do not have licenses.



    The projected cost in Texas, a state with a $10B deficit, is $20M.

    Here's an excellent and much more articulate article on the issue. Please take a minute to read it.

    http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/blog/2011/01/why-voter-id-is-bad-for-wisconsin.html

    that's fine, plenty of people don't drive and therefore don't have licenses . . . but we are talking about govt ID here, not specifically a "driver's license". You need a govt-issued ID for tons of other things, just to keep things on track here.

    also I'm not seeing the correlation between people voting democrat and not having an ID.

    I don't care who jumps on me over this as frankly I have mixed feelings about it, and so far don't buy too much into the arguments presented for either side of the issue.

    I will say that whenever I go to vote, I just yell my name to the blind, senile, 80 year old volunteer who I then have to help find my name on the register. I'm 99% positive I could come back 5 minutes later and merely give them my neighbor's name and vote again. I'm not comfortable with that.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    Except you do not need government ID to be a citizen.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,779 Senior Member
    But you do need to be a citizen to be registered to vote. Why not just require registration (which no one seems to have a problem with) with another form of ID that verifies a person's identity. Driver's license, passport, student ID, social security card (assuming no ID theft) or something like that? That's pretty much how it is here in FL.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    I will say that whenever I go to vote, I just yell my name to the blind, senile, 80 year old volunteer who I then have to help find my name on the register. I'm 99% positive I could come back 5 minutes later and merely give them my neighbor's name and vote again. I'm not comfortable with that.

    You think he/she would not do the same thing if you gave her your neighbors ID? They are supposed to check your signature against the one they have on file from when you registered btw.

    If someone were intent on voter fraud, the ID would not stop them. Why is it that these same people do not want paper copies of electronic voting? That would be a much more efficient way to steal an election than sending people into various voting booths.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    But you do need to be a citizen to be registered to vote. Why not just require registration (which no one seems to have a problem with) with another form of ID that verifies a person's identity. Driver's license, passport, student ID, social security card (assuming no ID theft) or something like that? That's pretty much how it is here in FL.

    Exactly. I said this a few posts back. Didn't everyone here have to show some sort of ID to register to vote anyway?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    I don't think so. I think all I needed was a valid address. I think they take that info and verify the rest.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • TrootfisherTrootfisher Senior Member Posts: 901 Senior Member
    I don't think so. I think all I needed was a valid address. I think they take that info and verify the rest.

    homeless people are eligible to vote, even if they don't have a valid address.
    http://www.nationalhomeless.org/projects/vote/court.html

    I'll also go on record as saying I wouldn't mind if they checked some form of ID. And I don't mean that because I want to disenfranchise people without IDs. If anyone calls me racist for my opinion then they are truly ignorant and just as bad as any racist out there.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    Again the only person calling anyone a racist here is Mr Right.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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