Is requiring an ID to vote racist?

Mr. RightMr. Right Senior MemberPosts: 535 Senior Member
I'm curious to hear what you folks think about this. Several states are putting laws into effect that require a person to show government-issued photo IDs in order to vote. Proponents say that this is a way of preventing voter fraud, Opponents say it is a racist way to prevent minorities from voting.

Personally, I have had to show such ID in the past year in order to board an airplane, cash a check and enter a national park on my senior pass, and spend the night at a Motel 6. If I had been younger, I would have had to show it to get into some movies, buy booze or liquor, or enter some establishments. I would also, of course, need such an ID if I wanted to drive or leave and enter this country, but I recognize that many people have no such need.

Getting such an ID would have been easy for me regardless of my race or income level. In most states it would cost me nothing, or so little that l would cheerfully have paid the fee in order to cash a check, etc.

I consider voting to be a right, a privelege and a civic duty. I believe every qualified citizen should vote. Conversely, I believe fraudulent voting is a crime. So I think that showing a government-issued photo ID in order to vote is a great idea. Am I a racist in this regard?
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Replies

  • dryfliedryflie Senior Member Posts: 1,442 Senior Member
    The real incident of voter fraud is incredibly minute so any attempt to suggest the ID idea is designed to reduce fraud is itself a fraud. The real reason for voter ID or other bills requiring early voter registration is to make it difficult for the poor or disadvantaged to vote. These people typically vote Democrat and the people pushing these bills are primarily Republican.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” - John Kenneth Galbraith
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    I consider voting to be a right, a privelege and a civic duty. I believe every qualified citizen should vote. Conversely, I believe fraudulent voting is a crime. So I think that showing a government-issued photo ID in order to vote is a great idea. Am I a racist in this regard?

    In Minnesota we went through the uproar over accused voter fraud when Franken was declared the winner of the US Senate race

    Wanna care to guess what the number of ultimately determined fraudulent votes were in the entire state? Let alone the Fauxette Gretchen Carlson opining about her native Minnesota elections and repeatedly mistating who can and can't legally vote within the state as fact so that now ''everyone' just know that 'those people' are overrunning the polls and electing 'liburrls' cuzz conservatives are the only ones who ever obey the law. While your at it take a guess as to what it cost taxpayers because the Republicans and Rightwad Talk Radio had their undies in a bunch.

    Now, I'm willing to bet that the percentage of people boarding flights or cashing a check (which you use as a definitive measure) who are doing so on forged documents on a daily basis .... I bet those numbers eclipse those that you are sitting and wringing your hands over because Limbaugh 'told you so'.

    Oh and big deal about the National Park pass .... so what? I remember when they didn't ask for ID along with the pass and people would just pass it around their family to cheat the system ... I bet demographics would show that it likely wasn't 'those people' either ... well just guessing based on multiple annual treks to multiple parks as a yearly pass holder.

    Oh? and ID's issued by the state don't "cost no money" ... even if the recipient is not charged someone still pays ... now I await your next post which will inevitably be an anti-gubbmint and spending rant.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    I consider voting to be a right, a privelege and a civic duty.

    So if it is all of those things, it is also each of those things. You are okay with the state requiring you to get a permit to exercise a right? That's essentially what you're saying. In the First Amendment context, if a person is requiresd to get state approval BEFORE being allowed to speak, we call that prior restraint, and it is prohibited except in the presence of extremely compelling reasons. The extent of voting fraud in America would NOT satisfy the standard for being a compelling reason. Why would we do differently with voting, which is arguably an even mor eimportant right than speech, since it constitutes the actual selection of our government.

    Now, let's look at your "civic duty" idea. If the law imposes a duty, that means it imposes consequences for failnig to perform that duty. So if you impose an ID requirement, you're basically saying "you have a duty to do somethign, but we're going to intentionally put barriers in your way." So what if voting is a civic duty but I let my ID expire? Have I broken the law by not voting, or has the state broken the law by not letting me vote? Let's say my wallet is stolen on the way to the polls? I have broken the law by not voting?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Wisconsin Governor Walker recently signed a bill that requires voters to show IDs at the polls. The new bill will cost Wisconsin taxpayers nearly $7 million in new spending and lost revenue, according to the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau. Many claim that the measure will do little to prevent voter fraud and will disenfranchise thousands of minority, elderly and rural voters.

    http://www.examiner.com/independent-in-madison/wi-voter-id-law-hurdles-for-voters-little-to-curb-voter-fraud-7-million-tab
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    See????

    this is what's wrong with 'merica ... liburrl elitists with their gobbledeegook ... everyone knows this is a Christian nation, where white people can do whatever they wants and march to vote with their guns and it's 'those people' who have wrecked everything and now you come along with stuff that isn't written in the Consteetushun and no one has ever read before you lawyurrs make a business ripping off hard workin' 'Mericans and make up stuff just trying to wreck whut we has
    Jamespio wrote: »
    So if it is all of those things, it is also each of those things. You are okay with the state requiring you to get a permit to exercise a right? That's essentially what you're saying. In the First Amendment context, if a person is requiresd to get state approval BEFORE being allowed to speak, we call that prior restraint, and it is prohibited except in the presence of extremely compelling reasons. The extent of voting fraud in America would NOT satisfy the standard for being a compelling reason. Why would we do differently with voting, which is arguably an even mor eimportant right than speech, since it constitutes the actual selection of our government.

    Now, let's look at your "civic duty" idea. If the law imposes a duty, that means it imposes consequences for failnig to perform that duty. So if you impose an ID requirement, you're basically saying "you have a duty to do somethign, but we're going to intentionally put barriers in your way." So what if voting is a civic duty but I let my ID expire? Have I broken the law by not voting, or has the state broken the law by not letting me vote? Let's say my wallet is stolen on the way to the polls? I have broken the law by not voting?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    ...

    By the way?

    Mr. Right (???) is that forum name in homage to radio talker Jason Lewis?
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    More smoke and mirrors. Let's get dem peoples all agitated by talkin bouts dem homos gettins married and dem dark folks runnin to the polls to votes. Den we get's to let dem Koch Brothers to have dem angry folks carry water for dem and gets the Gubment to do as dem rich folks wish. Three card monty for the ignorant.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,007 Senior Member
    On the off chance that this not a troll, let me just say that this phenomenon is the latest iteration of poll taxes, literacy tests, grandfather clauses and other attempts to keep poor and non-white citizens from exercising their right to vote.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,779 Senior Member
    No troll: how do you folks feel about voter registration in general?
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    Perhaps this is only in context to Monkey's first comment and George's comment as to the meaning behind these ideas and proposals:
    Generally speaking, if you have to ask if something is racist, it probably is.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Whenever I vote racist, I always show my Dinner's Club Card.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    I'm curious to hear what you folks think about this. Several states are putting laws into effect that require a person to show government-issued photo IDs in order to vote. Proponents say that this is a way of preventing voter fraud, Opponents say it is a racist way to prevent minorities from voting.

    Personally, I have had to show such ID in the past year in order to board an airplane, cash a check and enter a national park on my senior pass, and spend the night at a Motel 6. If I had been younger, I would have had to show it to get into some movies, buy booze or liquor, or enter some establishments. I would also, of course, need such an ID if I wanted to drive or leave and enter this country, but I recognize that many people have no such need.

    Getting such an ID would have been easy for me regardless of my race or income level. In most states it would cost me nothing, or so little that l would cheerfully have paid the fee in order to cash a check, etc.

    I consider voting to be a right, a privelege and a civic duty. I believe every qualified citizen should vote. Conversely, I believe fraudulent voting is a crime. So I think that showing a government-issued photo ID in order to vote is a great idea. Am I a racist in this regard?

    Did you also have to register to fly on a plane. The fact is that these laws disproportionately effect groups that traditionally vote Democrat.

    Fraudulent voting is a myth perpetuated by the Republicans so that they can keep old and poor people away from the polls with what is essentially a poll tax.

    In what states is getting an ID free? BTW if I was not here to assist my mother in getting to the DMV and filling out her paperwork, she would not currently have a valid ID card. Oh and how do you propose that we check ID on absentee ballots?

    It is not simply ID's that the Republicans are using they are also making it more difficult to vote absentee and closing voting down on Sundays. They are also making it harder for students to vote in states where they attend college.

    So please spare me this false patriotism. This is a plan to make it harder for people to vote period. If all old people and the poor were given free ID's through the mail, they would then have people take a test before voting.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • SaraSara Senior Member Posts: 512 Senior Member
    Chris, from what I understand, you are right that it will effect college students a lot. Maybe it is because their state issued ID address may not match their living address?
  • Scott ButnerScott Butner Senior Member Posts: 3,918 Senior Member
    I'm going to go against liberal dogma and state for the record that no, I don't think that voter ID requirements are, of necessity, racist. I think that in many cases, the impediments they pose weigh more heavily on the POOR, who happen to be more likely "people of color" -- but they target poor whites and poor people from other races in largely the same way. I also think that opponents of the requirements tend to overstate the burdens they place, at least as much as the proponents of such programs overstate the voter fraud issue.

    That said -- I suspect that racist attitudes motivate at least some of the people who have pushed for these -- though, there's a fine line between overt racism, and political expediency that happens to exploit racial divisions. Ultimately, doesn't it all come down to the R's trying to keep people who would tend to vote D from voting?

    If I thought that the ID requirements were solving a real problem, I might even be willing to support them. I don't, but I suspect the number of people actually disenfranchised by these requirements is very small.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,899 Senior Member
    In Wisconsin where there is an ID law that just passed, students can use a student ID card if it is issued by a Wisconsin-accredited college or university and contains the issuance date, student’s signature, and an expiration date no later than two years after its issuance date.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    I would be interested to know what that number is, but given some districts with close races, it could be enough.

    I just don't see what we gain by making it harder for people to vote.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    By the way the answer to the $64 question regarding Franken is '6'

    months of investigation of 'reported' widespread voter fraud by a Republican admin appointed State's Atty General's office resulted in 6 voters out of 5.5 million residents in the state being indicted for fradulent voting
  • M1911A1M1911A1 Senior Member Posts: 136 Senior Member
    got a question fer YOU Mr Repub.

    is voter caging Patriotic?
    "Its like I always tell ya kid, you gotta fight when you think its the right thing to do. Otherwise, you feel like your guts full of ****. Even if you get the hell beat outta ya, if ya fight, ya feel ok about it."
  • Mr. RightMr. Right Senior Member Posts: 535 Senior Member
    1911, I suspect your post is directed at me, even though I am registered as an Independent.

    I had never heard of voter caging before, so thanks for posting that link.

    Is caging patriotic? Hmm, I suspect that is the wrong phrase.

    Based on your link, is caging wrong? I don't think so as long as it is done right and for the right reasons. It looks like the answer to a question raised by one responder. How do we prevent voter fraud done via mail-in votes?

    I'm kind of surprised by most of the responses so far. I honestly don't feel that requiring a photo ID is racist at all. I know I don't have any racist thoughts as I support it. I actually feel that those who think it is racist are operating on racist beliefs. I believe it operates totally independently of race. It is only asking that you show the same proof of qualification when you vote as you are required to show for many other "transactions" and, in this case, the transaction is very important. Those who beleive it is racist are making assumptions about race that go way below what I consider to be fair or honest about foks who happen to be non-white.

    We will only believe in the results of our elections and give our support to the people elected if we believe that the voting was totally fair and honest. With photo ID required, I can believe in the result. (Even if it gets us another Obama term.) Without it, I have suspicions about the result. Were they valid voters? Did they only vote once?

    Why would anybody protest this very valid requirement??? Why should it be possible to cast a vote with less evidence than you need to check into a Motel 6?

    Get real!

    I hate the fact that somebody who pays zero taxes gets to cast a vote that is as valid as mine. It really galls me. But, know what? It is the law of the land and I support it. I just want only valid voters to vote and I want them to vote only one time.

    White, Black, brown, any gender, any orientation of any kind. Legitimate voters only. One vote. One time.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,269 Senior Member
    You may notice that no one here said that it was racist.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • swiperswiper Senior Member Posts: 396 Senior Member
    Or that anyone really agreed with the original post.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    You may notice that no one here said that it was racist.

    I believe what he is suggesting, is that it is a general trend in the news media to report that voter ID is racist.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Mr. Right wrote: »
    1911, I suspect your post is directed at me, even though I am registered as an Independent.

    I had never heard of voter caging before, so thanks for posting that link.

    Is caging patriotic? Hmm, I suspect that is the wrong phrase.

    Based on your link, is caging wrong? I don't think so as long as it is done right and for the right reasons. It looks like the answer to a question raised by one responder. How do we prevent voter fraud done via mail-in votes?

    I'm kind of surprised by most of the responses so far. I honestly don't feel that requiring a photo ID is racist at all. I know I don't have any racist thoughts as I support it. I actually feel that those who think it is racist are operating on racist beliefs. I believe it operates totally independently of race. It is only asking that you show the same proof of qualification when you vote as you are required to show for many other "transactions" and, in this case, the transaction is very important. Those who beleive it is racist are making assumptions about race that go way below what I consider to be fair or honest about foks who happen to be non-white.

    We will only believe in the results of our elections and give our support to the people elected if we believe that the voting was totally fair and honest. With photo ID required, I can believe in the result. (Even if it gets us another Obama term.) Without it, I have suspicions about the result. Were they valid voters? Did they only vote once?

    Why would anybody protest this very valid requirement??? Why should it be possible to cast a vote with less evidence than you need to check into a Motel 6?

    Get real!

    I hate the fact that somebody who pays zero taxes gets to cast a vote that is as valid as mine. It really galls me. But, know what? It is the law of the land and I support it. I just want only valid voters to vote and I want them to vote only one time.

    White, Black, brown, any gender, any orientation of any kind. Legitimate voters only. One vote. One time.

    Now you've just widened the scope of your initial question. We did away with owning property as a right to vote a long time ago. People do pay taxes, FICA and SS even if they aren't required to pay taxes because of their income level. So you're saying that someone who can't make enough money to pay Federal taxes shouldn't be allowed to vote? Is this how the GOP determines the worth integrity of a citizen, by how much money they make? I was taught by my parents that each and every person is equal and deserving of respect and treat them as you would like to be treated.

    And I've never had to show an ID to check into a motel.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,176 Senior Member
    I recently traveled (last month) from WI to TX to CO and then back to WI. I had to show an ID at every motel I checked into along with giving them my license plate number.
  • JulietJuliet Posts: 0
    Maybe because I pay with a credit card. All I've ever had to do was put down my license plate number. I could also be the places I stay at are places I stay at more than once.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,899 Senior Member
    joekrz wrote: »
    I recently traveled (last month) from WI to TX to CO and then back to WI. I had to show an ID at every motel I checked into along with giving them my license plate number.

    No wonder, just look at ya...



    :p

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

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