Obama Intends To Deliver Jobs Speech Next Wednesday

2456

Replies

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 9,899 Senior Member
    Jamespio wrote: »
    But maybe you don't think the intellectually disabled deserve services if the only way to fund them is through defiict spending.

    And there THAT is. Typical and unworthy of a response.
  • every **** is sacred after the first breath you're on your own
  • Jamespio wrote: »
    The evidenced that the only problem with the stimulus package was that it was TOO SMALL is pretty overwhelming. I personally know dozens of teachers who have jobs because of ARRA. I've watched county road crews in my neighborhood for the last year who have jobs because of ARRA. I know of hundreds of construction workers who only have jobs because of ARRA funded projects. Furthermore, because of those jobs, thousands of others have managed to hold onto their jobs at daycare centers, restaraunts, auto repair shops etc. That's where the jobs are. Next?

    Oh nonsense. Despite the fact that there is no evidence, it's become the meme of the Left. The Krugmanites continue to use basic Keynesian theory that assumes that what works for an economy with little or no debt will work in an economy with loads.

    While it undoubtedly true that thousands of people held on to jobs, at what cost per job?
  • Jamespio wrote: »
    So, if two companies go bankrupt that is conclusive evidence that we should cease all public invewstment in the industry? I just want to make sure I understand the appropriate standard here.

    By this standard, we should stop all public spendign that benefits banking, manufacturing, investment brokerages, and literally EVERYTHING that can be called a "small business."

    Good lord, you guys are bad at policy.

    Socialize the losses....
  • Steven wrote: »
    Socialize the losses....

    and the risk


    but as we know this is only acceptable for right wing approved endeavors
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Oh nonsense. Despite the fact that there is no evidence, it's become the meme of the Left. The Krugmanites continue to use basic Keynesian theory that assumes that what works for an economy with little or no debt will work in an economy with loads.

    While it undoubtedly true that thousands of people held on to jobs, at what cost per job?

    And just what economic philosophy got us into this mess, the Keynesians?...why it was your very own Laissez-faire Chicago styled theory. The track record is in black and white. It hasn't done a thing, hasn't created jobs (in this country) and still isn't, nor will it ever. Using the same theory to get out of a mess that it created is like trying to heal a person with a gunshot wound by shooting him again. When you show me a growing economy, with the creation of "good" jobs instead of constantly losing those jobs over decades then your economic beliefs will have merit.

    Regulatory capture is working out really well for all of us....well a small percent of us.



    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/01/11/100111fa_fact_cassidy
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • Hey, I'll play fair.

    Just whenever I hear "socialize the losses again", expect Solyndra to pop up.

    By the way, that other one that went down, got a whole bunch of money from the state of Massachusetts, I believe.
  • Wetdog wrote: »
    And just what economic philosophy got us into this mess, the Keynesians?...why it was your very own Laissez-faire Chicago styled theory. The track record is in black and white. It hasn't done a thing, hasn't created jobs (in this country) and still isn't, nor will it ever. Using the same theory to get out of a mess that it created is like trying to heal a person with a gunshot would by shooting him again. When you show me a growing economy, with the creation of "good" jobs instead of constantly losing those jobs over decades then your economic beliefs will have merit.

    Regulatory capture is working out really well for all of us....well a small percent of us.



    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/01/11/100111fa_fact_cassidy

    Right, because the whole housing market thing, including government sponsored agencies ordered around and then spared by Barney Frank and friends, were an example of laissez-faire capitalism.
  • yataheyyatahey Senior Member Posts: 5,605 Senior Member
    The housing bubble burst in 2006. Bushenocmics was a failure long before that. The eight years of Bush was the weakest economy in decades.
    "The number of jobs in the nation increased by about 2 percent during Bush's tenure, the most tepid growth over any eight-year span since data collection began seven decades ago. Gross domestic product, a broad measure of economic output, grew at the slowest pace for a period of that length since the Truman administration. And Americans' incomes grew more slowly than in any presidency since the 1960s, other than that of Bush's father." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/01/12/ST2009011200359.html
    "When the goin gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
  • How come you're giving me a quote specifiying the full 8-yr span but telling me that "Bushenomics" was a failure long before 2006?
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Blaming Barney Frank, that could be new great movie. And just how was that it any of it could have even happened in the first place? Deregulation of the banking industry? No that can't be it. American jobs were already on the way out before this even began. There seems to be conclusive evidence that the .com bubble can be laid at "your" doorstep as well, though I am not making that claim. Since you are a true believer show me the positive results your theory has had for the average American. You can't, nor has anyone sharing your beliefs. I must be from Missouri, when you "Show Me," I'll cut you a break. I've asked the question maybe fifty times and still there is no answer forthcoming...show me that it works. Don't bother with Economic theoretical mumbo jumbo, show me that deregulation works, creates jobs, reduces costs to the consumer,..... These have been the promises your friends make to us. Show me how those promises benefited us all. When a theory fails to deliver (beginning in the 80's until now), that theory is not much else than just nice words in a book.

    may you catch many fish, and have good neighbors.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Really? Hasn't the House GOP already come out with its own jobs plan?

    The best quote was from one of the President's aids: "The Republicans can always move the time of their debate. We have no problem with that."

    Nope. Cutting taxes and eliminating EPA is not a jobs plan.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    2) Extend unemployment benefits - despite the fact that numerous studies show that unemployment benefits are a barrier to employment.

    There are more that say otherwise.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • How did de-regulation of the banking industry lead to the housing melt-down?

    The dot.com bubble, I'll give you, but that was a minor blip on the American economic scene.

    As for the average American...any place they'd rather be?
  • There are more that say otherwise.

    No, there aren't. What there are are people who think its worth it because of their belief in the multiplier effect.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    You are not this dense. Can you say bundling, over the counter derivatives? The housing meltdown only indirectly caused the financial meltdown.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Nope. Cutting taxes and eliminating EPA is not a jobs plan.

    You may not like what the Republicans are offering, but no Republican was out there asking the President for a jobs plan.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    No, there aren't. What there are are people who think its worth it because of their belief in the multiplier effect.

    Just like the Republican belief that cutting taxes solves all problems. It is a matter of faith backed by no historical evidence.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    You may not like what the Republicans are offering, but no Republican was out there asking the President for a jobs plan.

    Who cares?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • You are not this dense. Can you say bundling, over the counter derivatives? The housing meltdown only indirectly caused the financial meltdown.

    The housing melt down was the source of the crisis. No doubt, other things made it worse, but the housing crisis was the wood and the match. How could you possibly say otherwise. Do you think if the housing market recovered we'd still have 9%+ unemployment?
  • Who cares?

    Well, if you actually paid attention to the original point, you'd understand.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    greenman wrote: »
    To both houses of congress. GOP says it conflicts with debate. They don't really debate they preen and blame.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110831-713923.html

    **** want's POTUS to give speech on Thursday night but that's the opening night of FUTBALL.

    Sorry I don't see where we care what the Republicans asked for.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    The housing melt down was the source of the crisis. No doubt, other things made it worse, but the housing crisis was the wood and the match. How could you possibly say otherwise. Do you think if the housing market recovered we'd still have 9%+ unemployment?

    If the banks that made these loans had to manage the risk, it never would have spread and there may have been a free market solution and banks would be motivated to negotiate with homeowners.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Sorry I don't see where we care what the Republicans asked for.

    See post #10.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,286 Senior Member
    oh
    ...........
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • If the banks that made these loans had to manage the risk, it never would have spread and there may have been a free market solution and banks would be motivated to negotiate with homeowners.

    Right but if banks had to manage the risk, how would lending have looked differently? Instead, you make the loans and sell 'em to Fannie or Freddie becasue they're underwriting systems said it was all OK and their 2% capital ratios could handle expected losses. Doh.
  • TomTom Senior Member Posts: 253 Senior Member
    The Krugmanites continue to use basic Keynesian theory that assumes that what works for an economy with little or no debt will work in an economy with loads.

    This is true and why I have supported measured austerity. By measured, I mean, recognizing that no matter your thoughts on govt, you realize that it is a part of our gdp and any fiscal contraction there will redound to the rest of the economy, causing further contraction.

    Govt's actions needs to be balanced against the reactions of the private sector, no matter how irrational they may seem, cause ultimately govco needs to hand over the mantle before long. IMO, this has been primary struggle for this recovery.

    You have real drags on the economy holding us back, domestic consumers still arent spending, are still digging out of debt, and we havent devalued our currency enough to be more competitive globally.

    However, we also have manufactured drags created by the right. They have created a near hysteria about obama's supposed assault on free markets. Total garbage, but it seems that if enough pissed off rich people say it, their legions will believe it. I believe this is causing an irrational psychological headwind.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    How did de-regulation of the banking industry lead to the housing melt-down?

    The dot.com bubble, I'll give you, but that was a minor blip on the American economic scene.

    As for the average American...any place they'd rather be?

    When Investment banks were allowed to bundle and sell mortgages due to deregulation in late the nineties. Before that banks didn't make all those bad loans, couldn't sell them off (relieving them of responsibility for them) to the speculators. We can talk about The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000,..... Derivatives baby! Goldman Sachs also bet against the low-value CDOs, telling investors they were high-quality. The three biggest ratings agencies contributed to the problem. AAA-rated instruments rocketed from a mere handful in 2000 to over 4,000 in 2006,......but what's the point?


    All you need to do is show me that it creates jobs in this country, reducing costs for business that was then passed on to the consumer,......
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • There were betting parlors before the Great Depression. They contributed nothing to the economy and were not allowed afterwards as people held no actual stock in anything. How is a derivative any different than a side bet?
  • Steven wrote: »
    Oh nonsense.

    Oh, nonsense on your nonsense.

    The Congressional Budget Office disagrees with you. http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/123xx/doc12385/08-24-ARRA.pdf
    So do these gusy who (unlike you and me) actually practice the field of macroeconomics: http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/End-of-Great-Recession.pdf

    Of particular interest in the CBO report, polease note that reductions in corporate tax rates, and reductions in taxes on the well-off have a multiplier of less than one. While infratstructure spending, tax cuts for the poor, and transfers to the poor have much higher multipliers.

    Now, I know that somebody has sent you the memo claiming you should disavow multiplier effects, but keep in mind that doing so would contradict a good 100 years of both economic theory and empirical proof. There isn't much empirical proof in economics, but a few principles are well-established and mulitplier effects are one of them. You can't rewrite economic history to meet the arguments of hte day.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction.

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Fly Fisherman stories delivered right to your inbox.