Home The Lodge

George Floyd

breamfisherbreamfisher Senior MemberPosts: 5,500 Senior Member
edited May 28 in The Lodge #1

Honest question here: what can citizens do when they see someone being choked/strangled by the police and appearing to be in duress? I know the incidence rate appears to be very low, but when you're seeing someone in that situation and the other police aren't doing anything, what can you, as a citizen do?

«13456710

Replies

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 5,040 Senior Member

    I wondered the same thing. I think the answer, as bad as it seems, is not much, safely... I'd call 911 to at least go on the record.

    The problem is that this is going to make every resist situation with a LEO and a AA perp look like another Floyd incident and potentially lead to citizen intervention. Which probably won't end well for anyone involved.

    What this officer has done is set the AA / local police relations back 70 years.


    And I'm sorry but take the uniform off and it's murder. How can anyone stand on a mans neck while he tells you he can't breath you're killing him and cries for his mom. Something just isn't right about this cop.

  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member
    edited May 28 #3

    Get some people people together and disable the cop by kicking him in the head. Bad joke.

    Tell the cop he is being recorded by more than one person, tell him that you or someone else is calling the station reporting him to his superiors and the DA. What else can you do?

    I saw something like that in the late sixties. About twenty or more people surrounded that cop who had a "billy club" tightly across a guys throat yelling for him to stop. He got very nervous and released him and left that area. What had the guy done? He called him a "pig," I guess that he was right.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 5,500 Senior Member

    @Wetdog said:
    Get some people people together and disable the cop by kicking him in the head. Bad joke.
    You'd probably get shot. **
    Tell the cop he is being recorded by more than one person, tell him that you or someone else is calling the station reporting him to his superiors and the DA. What else can you do?
    **That's basically where we're at right now. I guess you can also add send the video to the news. Because I'm not sure this stuff would get out otherwise.

    I saw something like that in the late sixties. About twenty or more people surrounded that cop who had a "billy club" tightly across a guys throat yelling for him to stop. He got very nervous and released him and left that area. What had the guy done? He called him a "pig," I guess that he was right.

    This was over a $20 counterfeit bill. But if you notice the video, it seems the kneeler is concentrated on Floyd, and the other police are worried about crowd control. Incidentally, it seems the store owner that Floyd was allegedly trying to pass the bill off to is understandably unhappy about what happened. He understand he's a part of the community.

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 5,500 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    I wondered the same thing. I think the answer, as bad as it seems, is not much, safely... I'd call 911 to at least go on the record. I'm not sure that's really a solution, though, is it? I'd add document what happened, because I doubt we'd be having this conversation if it wasn't taped by civilians.
    The problem is that this is going to make every resist situation with a LEO and a AA perp look like another Floyd incident and potentially lead to citizen intervention. Which probably won't end well for anyone involved.
    What this officer has done is set the AA / local police relations back 70 years.
    His partners didn't help...
    And I'm sorry but take the uniform off and it's murder. How can anyone stand on a mans neck while he tells you he can't breath you're killing him and cries for his mom. Something just isn't right about this cop.More than just this officer. There were others there. Why didn't they do anything?

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 4,436 Senior Member

    There's another video circulating taken across the street from behind the cops. From that viewpoint, it looks as if the cops weight (at least for the 10 or so seconds shown) wasn't on Floyd's neck. The weight was on the cop's other knee which was also right in the middle of Floyd's back. Lung compression would likely result.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 4,436 Senior Member

    Watching CBS This Morning earlier. Gayle King got into it with Keith Ellison (he's now the Minnesota AG). King was demanding to know why the cops hadn't been arrested for probable cause.

    Ellison punted, stating that the case hadn't been referred to him yet, and that charges had to be brought to him by the local investigating jurisdiction. He didn't know why they hadn't been brought.

    sherb, maybe you can opine on this.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 5,040 Senior Member

    He was wearing Blue.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 25,819 Senior Member

    Can someone tell me why this is different than all the other cases that were just like it where many of you sided with the police?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 4,436 Senior Member
    edited May 29 #10

    Maybe it's because while we may typically side with the police, we're not really racists, and this time we can actually see the facts as opposed to believing one set of unreliable witnesses over another set of unreliable witnesses?

    Edit to add: This also isn't a case where a scared cop has to make a split second decision.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 5,040 Senior Member
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,696 Senior Member

    Totally get the protests the cops need to be charged. March, demonstrate, rally all you want.

    Will never understand how rioting, looting and burning down businesses solves anything or provides justice.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    Can someone tell me why this is different than all the other cases that were just like it where many of you sided with the police?

    It is though. My employees are posting about it on facebook (which they never do), as are a lot of local cops. I've never seen that before. This ain't Ferguson.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member

    @Steven said:
    Watching CBS This Morning earlier. Gayle King got into it with Keith Ellison (he's now the Minnesota AG). King was demanding to know why the cops hadn't been arrested for probable cause.

    Ellison punted, stating that the case hadn't been referred to him yet, and that charges had to be brought to him by the local investigating jurisdiction. He didn't know why they hadn't been brought.

    sherb, maybe you can opine on this.

    The AG doesn't have original jurisdiction over most crimes. Its the County Prosecutor. And since we know most cops get acquitted they want to move slowly and build the case.

    That said, I expect arrests any day.

  • ShawnC2ShawnC2 Posts: 778 Senior Member

    @jbilly said:

    Will never understand how rioting, looting and burning down businesses solves anything or provides justice.

    While I agree with you Joe, there is a psychological-social dynamic at work here wherin these things tend to turn violent even if everyone started with the best of intentions.

    Also, (while still agreeing with you!) how is marching peacefully going to get anything done? Colin K. and friends tried that and got vilified. Hell, Colin K. even lost his career over peaceful protest.

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 5,500 Senior Member

    …I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the N e gro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.

    From Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "The Other America" speech at Stanford University. He's not excusing riots, but pointing out that the issues that lead to them have been festering for a long time.

    And the forum software doesn't like Dr. King's term for blacks, so I had to get around it. Sorry, Mods.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 5,040 Senior Member

    It's failing to hear a lot more too. Like 2020 Memorial day weekend mass shootings and killings all across America. America has become hyper focused on race and that's a great thing. But we still seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Not everyone in the bad parts of these cites being killed is a gang member or drug dealer. Their lives matter too. Not trying to derail this thread but I have always wondered why these killings, which are sometimes equal to some kind of warzone, are just glossed over. Talk about smoldering for a while.

  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,696 Senior Member

    @ShawnC2 said:

    @jbilly said:

    Will never understand how rioting, looting and burning down businesses solves anything or provides justice.

    While I agree with you Joe, there is a psychological-social dynamic at work here wherin these things tend to turn violent even if everyone started with the best of intentions.

    Also, (while still agreeing with you!) how is marching peacefully going to get anything done? Colin K. and friends tried that and got vilified. Hell, Colin K. even lost his career over peaceful protest.

    Joe???? What the f :p

    I don't know what solution is. But two wrongs (or in this case more) don't make a right. The man is dead. Burning the town down won't change that and IMO it will take people who may be sympathetic and have them turn a blind eye. All I'm saying is I don't see how burning target and wendys and whatever else got burned down (heck, even the cop station) accomplishes anything.

    I wasn't around for it and won't pretend I know all the details, and I know it wasn't always peaceful, but it seems like MLKs movement accomplished a lot more through peaceful protest. I myself would respect that more and would listen more; but that's just my 2 cents

  • ShawnC2ShawnC2 Posts: 778 Senior Member

    Sorry, Jim. I didn't get any sleep last night.
    I believe there have been peaceful protests in other cities over the past few days as well

  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,696 Senior Member

    @ShawnC2 said:
    Sorry, Jim. I didn't get any sleep last night.
    I believe there have been peaceful protests in other cities over the past few days as well

    Sucks about the insomnia. Protests in Denver had shots fired and a car intentionally run into a protestor. Sadly I don't know answers. But in my life time I think of things like Rodney King and burning parts of LA, Ferguson, and now Minneapolis and think while peaceful protests haven't changed things neither has violence,

    Heck for that matter I've never understood when a team wins a championship in sports why people burn places up either.

    So apparently we as American's just like to destroy other peoples stuff.

  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member

    An arrest has been made. Frankly, it's about time.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member
    edited May 29 #22

    Does anyone have any black friends? Even if you don't you can have some insight into why things have only changed a bit in 400 years. Meaning a black man still has to watch out for himself in many situations, often those are with cops. White guys rarely have those considerations in the same circumstances.

    Looting and burning rarely have much in connection to protests, those problems have more to do with "opportunists."

    Why doesn't violent or peaceful protests over racism and racist acts work? Because there are just too many racists among us.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • bushart1bushart1 Posts: 696 Senior Member

    @Wetdog said:
    Does anyone have any black friends? Even if you don't you can have some insight into why things have only changed a bit in 400 years. Meaning a black man still has to watch out for himself in many situations, often those are with cops. White guys rarely have those considerations in the same circumstances.

    Looting and burning rarely have much in connection to protests, those problems have more to do with "opportunists."

    Why doesn't violent or peaceful protests over racism and racist acts work? Because there are just too many racists among us.

    LOL---I can see that one and raise one

    My nephew has a lifetime friend who is Black---of course they both like fishin
    Now they both travel north to come fishin here with me---his friend also refers to me as Uncle
    Only issue I have with him is when he outfishes me :)

    When my son was a teenager and we lived way up north---he had a Native friend that would be hangin around
    I remember them wrestling in the basement---breaking our furniture
    Also I used to kid them how they conveniently showed up at supper time
    I called him my adopted son

    I guess I'm an equal opportunity guardian :)
    Racist---not so much

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member

    @Wetdog said:
    Does anyone have any black friends? Even if you don't you can have some insight into why things have only changed a bit in 400 years.

    If by "a bit" you mean we are the only western country to have ever had a black head of state, yes, I guess you could say things have changed "a bit."

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member

    No one has even commented on the worst aspect of the video.

    It's obvious the cop has done this before. Probably 100 times. Its just that no one died.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    @Steven said:
    Watching CBS This Morning earlier. Gayle King got into it with Keith Ellison (he's now the Minnesota AG). King was demanding to know why the cops hadn't been arrested for probable cause.

    Ellison punted, stating that the case hadn't been referred to him yet, and that charges had to be brought to him by the local investigating jurisdiction. He didn't know why they hadn't been brought.

    sherb, maybe you can opine on this.

    The AG doesn't have original jurisdiction over most crimes. Its the County Prosecutor. And since we know most cops get acquitted they want to move slowly and build the case.

    That said, I expect arrests any day.

    Annnnnd. . .he's in custody.

  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member
    edited May 29 #27

    @sherb said:
    No one has even commented on the worst aspect of the video.

    It's obvious the cop has done this before. Probably 100 times. Its just that no one died.

    I think he has had 18 complaints against him earlier. Can't say what they all were. A bad man will be a bad cop. Nothing about being a cop, only that power that comes with it.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    @Wetdog said:
    Does anyone have any black friends? Even if you don't you can have some insight into why things have only changed a bit in 400 years.

    If by "a bit" you mean we are the only western country to have ever had a black head of state, yes, I guess you could say things have changed "a bit."

    A Black man became prez, however that doesn't change anything out in the neighborhood or the county. It could easily have caused more anger. SO I guess racism can't be that bad anymore 'cause a black guy got elected. Even black professionals to the guy waiting tables knows what I was talking about. White people don't see it because it's not within their experience.

    Example after example has been brought into the public view year after year, ever wonder about how many of these things are just explained away and no action were ever taken. You know, just like the cops experience using the knee.

    No chains on, no whip scars, but it isn't any picnic for many. I am deeply rural, you should see peoples faces when they see a black guy, it hasn't changed that much. Less but it's still there.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • GreenMtBoy2GreenMtBoy2 Posts: 311 Senior Member

    How about our President tweeting, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts." Real helpful input, Mr. President.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 5,298 Senior Member

    Amazing to me that this petty tinpot dictator is so popular.

  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,425 Senior Member

    @sherb said:
    Amazing to me that this petty tinpot dictator is so popular.

    Just think about that and what it means.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction.

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Fly Fisherman stories delivered right to your inbox.

Advertisement