Impeachment open thread

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Replies

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,486 Senior Member

    If Getting Info From A Foreign Government Is A Problem, Ask Democrats About Steele Dossier

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,951 Senior Member

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,951 Senior Member

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,951 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    If Getting Info From A Foreign Government Is A Problem, Ask Democrats About Steele Dossier

    Tell me where in the Clinton campaign was the Steele Dossier (which came from an American) used.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,486 Senior Member

    Which American wrote the Steele Dossier?

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,486 Senior Member

    The Intelligence dept, spied on a GOP candidate based of a fake dossier, paid for and provided by his opposing candidate, and the DNC. A dossier that was most likely fabricated by Russian intelligence. And Trumps the one who’s a threat to our democracy? Are you Fing kidding me?

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,202 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    Well if you were for impeaching Clinton, you are a bigger hypocrite. Because his behavior was not a threat to our democracy.

    His vile and perverse acts never could have produced more citizens/voters for the fatherland, er, I mean motherland, er, I mean homeland, er, I mean selected Congressional Districts of the Donald's choice. ;)

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • GreenMtBoy2GreenMtBoy2 Posts: 118 Senior Member

    He should be impeached. He used the office of the Presidency to further his own personal interests and in doing so risked the country's national security interests.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,510 Senior Member

    @GreenMtBoy2 said:
    He should be impeached. He used the office of the Presidency to further his own personal interests and in doing so risked the country's national security interests.

    I agree.

    I don't know about removal though. I think there's sufficient evidence to warrant an impeachment. I'm less sure about removal.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,202 Senior Member

    This time posting seriously.

    I have not changed my mind since when we first discussed this topic. To wit: The President deserves to be impeached, convicted and removed from office, after which he should face possible criminal charges for multiple crimes documented in Mueller's report, for which he would have been indicted save for the DOJ policy forbidding the indictment of a sitting President.

    However, it ain't gonna happen, because the GOPoT-controlled Senate will not convict him unless, perhaps, he were to appear unannounced in that August Chamber and shoot half a dozen distinguished Members to death, the majority of them conservative Republicans.

    So, since the Senate will not convict, Trump will run in 2020 loudly proclaiming that he was tried and found innocent of all the phony charges invented by the America-hating Dems.

    Impeachment is a loser for Dems, a winner for Trump.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,510 Senior Member

    That's all true. Its all for naught.

    And yet. . .

    I think there are legitimate issues that can only be resolved via impeachment. The rule of law, separation of powers, and what I feel is most important, the House reasserting its article I authority, which has been moribund since the time of Bill Clinton.

    If he walks, he walks. I supported Clinton's impeachment, and I knew he would walk too. It didn't matter. He lied under oath, committed a federal felony, and was subsequently disbarred by the State of Arkansas. I did not necessarily believe that it warranted removal, which is ultimately a political rather than a legal decision.

  • GreenMtBoy2GreenMtBoy2 Posts: 118 Senior Member

    I agree that the Senate won’t convict but there comes a time when people have to stand up for what is right and that is what the House will be doing if votes to impeach.

    Not that it should matter but as for the presidential politics of impeachment I see little risk to the Ds. Almost everybody’s minds about Trump are made up and impeaching or not impeaching isn’t going to move the needle one way or the other politically.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,202 Senior Member

    I agree that doing what is right is morally correct, but politics - as opposed to political philosophy - essentially is amoral, like mathematics or chemistry.

    In this case "doing what's right" strengthens the wrongdoer, IMO. Unlike the current crop of Dems in the House I think it best only to pick the fights or arguments you know you probably will win. Either that, or prepare for a lot of backfires.

    As I've said before, politics is the art of the possible, not of choosing the hill on which to die.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • GreenMtBoy2GreenMtBoy2 Posts: 118 Senior Member

    George, I pretty much agree with all of that. It’s just that there comes a point.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,486 Senior Member

    if you can’t remove him, and you can’t with what anyone has seen so far, then it’s not worth risking. What people are going to see is the dems spent months attacking Kavanaugh, 2.5 years on Russia Russia Russia. A year on this circus, and for what?? They’ve died on so many hills now it’s hard to remember them all.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,951 Senior Member

    Have you ever been sued for denying black people an opportunity to rent your properties?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 1,659 Senior Member

    I really do hate Trump, but I love what he's done for my 401K. Just sayin'.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,464 Senior Member

    @GreenMtBoy2 said:
    He used the office of the Presidency to further his own personal interests...

    Ummmm...That's what all presidents and most other politicians do. This isn't a surprise by any means.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,951 Senior Member

    Bull

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,464 Senior Member

    @CO Native said:
    I really do hate Trump, but I love what he's done for my 401K. Just sayin'.

    Agreed. My 401k and profit sharing are doing great.

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,947 Senior Member
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,947 Senior Member
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,486 Senior Member

    I read this morning that some in California are already preparing to impeach him again if he wins 2020. If they focused on the country even half as much as they do on undoing the country’s voice, they’d be a quarter as successful as he is.

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,947 Senior Member

    Interesting that POTUS is saying that abusing his presidential power is not a crime.

    Interesting because one of the charges brought up against Pres. Clinton was... abuse of power.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,486 Senior Member
    edited December 2019 #58

    Was paying Iran for hostages quid pro quo? Abuse of power? Abuse of US policy regarding hostages? Absolutely. This is nothing new. It's just because a POTUS that the Dem controlled house hates, that we're even talking about it.
    https://www.npr.org/2016/08/05/488793518/iran-expert-weighs-in-on-controversial-washington-tehran-money-transfer

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,951 Senior Member

    that was part of an overall $1.7 billion that was sent to Iran which was money left over from the Shah's time which Iran was owed.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,486 Senior Member

    The 400 mil in this discussion was for hostages, plain and simple.

    SADJADPOUR: I think the aspect of the $400 million was - in cash payments flown on a plane in multiple currencies - that wasn't totally clear. And then the second part that, again, this was purely coincidental and the United States doesn't pay ransom - the reality now is that there are more U.S. nationals in prison in Iran, since this exchange took place, there are more U.S. nationals in Iranian prison...

    INSKEEP: Meaning that Americans, Iranian Americans, in many cases, have been taken prisoner or arrested for various things, more of them than before.

    SADJADPOUR: Exactly, and a precedent has now been set.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,951 Senior Member
    edited December 2019 #61

    Is there a transcript where Obama tells the Iranian President that we will not release the funds if he does not give us dirt on Trump?

    BTW the precedent for the scenario you cannot prove, money for hostages, was set under Reagan.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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