Navy Secretary Forced Out

GreenMtBoy2GreenMtBoy2 Posts: 23 Junior Member

For getting crosswise to POTUS in the SEAL discipline matter. What do people think?

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Replies

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,039 Senior Member

    Don't mess with The Donald's fragile ego.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,211 Senior Member

    I didn't think about it. Was I suppose to?

    I think snow got in the way of my thoughts...

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,599 Senior Member

    Actually no.

    Seems Spencer got crosswise with Sec. Esper for going to the President, unbeknownst to Esper, with a deal to prosecute Gallagher and then let Gallagher retire as a Seal.

    Esper got caught flat-footed and fired Spencer for violating the chain of command.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,039 Senior Member

    @Steven said:
    Actually no.

    Seems Spencer got crosswise with Sec. Esper for going to the President, unbeknownst to Esper, with a deal to prosecute Gallagher and then let Gallagher retire as a Seal.

    Esper got caught flat-footed and fired Spencer for violating the chain of command.

    If that's the case he deserved to be fired.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,194 Senior Member

    Perhaps his firing was justified. Doesn't really matter. He's a political appointee. They come and go.

    But the Donald is coming perilously close to sanctioning war crimes to win votes. the commutation of Lt Lorance is probably the most egregious example, but there are others. And even if Trump wanted to restore Gallagher's rank, the Navy was entitled to discipline him for what he did.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,039 Senior Member
    edited November 26 #7

    I agree completely and Trump's disregard for war and other crimes, damaging military discipline. Spencer went behind his boss's back to cut a deal with an untrustworthy lowlife, got caught and paid the price.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member
    edited November 26 #8

    Do we know for a fact this is what happened or is this yet another in series of Trump "talking points?"

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • ShawnC2ShawnC2 Posts: 26 Junior Member

    It is truly disturbing what he has done with these war criminals. I honestly wonder, if re-elected, if our military will start to resemble that of Saudi Arabia, where all the richest and most connected kids get to be the fighter pilots.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member

    Won't happen here because our fighter pilots actually fight.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,039 Senior Member

    Saudi pilots drop bombs on civilians in Yemen; Trump would consider that gallant air combat.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,599 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    Do we know for a fact this is what happened or is this yet another in series of Trump "talking points?"

    Unless you're there, you never know what happened. Esper said, "This isn't about Eddie Gallagher. It's about the chain of command."

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member

    That applies to you. Given the amount of mendacity displayed by this administration, you cannot say that you know for sure either.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,912 Senior Member

    Esper didn't get that playing this card publically was going to be a political boost for Trump. Low hanging political fruit. Unfortunatly Donnie can't pardon the Abu Garib guards, cause he probably would.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,599 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    That applies to you. Given the amount of mendacity displayed by this administration, you cannot say that you know for sure either.

    Better shut this board down since none of us are in the administration.

    Either that, or talk about whether the improved clinch really is improved.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member

    What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Don't melt snowflake.

    And the improved clinch not is a hoax.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,599 Senior Member

    Uhmmm...who's melting?

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member
    edited December 2 #18

    There is a pattern here.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,194 Senior Member

    Trump is playing with fire. Not that he cares.

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,811 Senior Member

    This is the official Navy CNO's tweet about Gallagher, from Nov. 15.
    Not having been in the military, I had to read the thread to get the gist of the wording, what was said and what wasn't.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,194 Senior Member

    That's code for "orders are orders. Its a lawful albeit ill-advised order, but its still an order."

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,811 Senior Member

    @sherb said:
    That's code for "orders are orders. Its a lawful albeit ill-advised order, but its still an order."

    Somebody else also pointed out it's code for, "we may have to pay him, but we don't trust him anymore."

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,811 Senior Member

    One thing that the articles Comic linked remind me of, is Chris Kyle's book, "American Sniper." In it Kyle talks about how they became, dare I say it, bored of killing. They'd start trying different sorts of kills: pistol, knife, e-tool, whatever. Point is, when I read Gallagher got a knife and hatchet for his deployment, I wasn't surprised.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 4,194 Senior Member

    I don't know that Kyle is a reliable narrator. He also claimed to have kicked Jesse Ventura's ****, a claim that was certainly a lie.

    Anyone who can be killed with an e-tool can also be taken prisoner. And look: this isn't some pantywaist general tying these guys' hands with the ROE. This is the law of armed conflict (i.e. war crimes), rules that are applicable always and everywhere.

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,811 Senior Member

    I understand on all points. But regarding Kyle and his kill methods, I've read about it with other folks, too. Could they all be lying? Maybe. There also could be some truth to it, too.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 10,039 Senior Member

    @sherb said:
    Trump is playing with fire. Not that he cares.

    Or understands.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member

    Having never endured the inhumanity that is war, I have to temper my judgement. But I think there is some truth to the idea that some people join for the wrong reasons and it is also true that killing someone changes you on a fundamental level. I also think that it is telling that everyone in his unit testified against him.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,373 Senior Member
    edited December 3 #31
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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