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GreenMtBoy2
Posts: 301 Senior Member
Navy Secretary Forced Out
GreenMtBoy2
Posts: 301 Senior Member
For getting crosswise to POTUS in the SEAL discipline matter. What do people think?
Replies
Don't mess with The Donald's fragile ego.
George Will
I didn't think about it. Was I suppose to?
I think snow got in the way of my thoughts...
Actually no.
Seems Spencer got crosswise with Sec. Esper for going to the President, unbeknownst to Esper, with a deal to prosecute Gallagher and then let Gallagher retire as a Seal.
Esper got caught flat-footed and fired Spencer for violating the chain of command.
If that's the case he deserved to be fired.
George Will
Perhaps his firing was justified. Doesn't really matter. He's a political appointee. They come and go.
But the Donald is coming perilously close to sanctioning war crimes to win votes. the commutation of Lt Lorance is probably the most egregious example, but there are others. And even if Trump wanted to restore Gallagher's rank, the Navy was entitled to discipline him for what he did.
I agree completely and Trump's disregard for war and other crimes, damaging military discipline. Spencer went behind his boss's back to cut a deal with an untrustworthy lowlife, got caught and paid the price.
George Will
Do we know for a fact this is what happened or is this yet another in series of Trump "talking points?"
It is truly disturbing what he has done with these war criminals. I honestly wonder, if re-elected, if our military will start to resemble that of Saudi Arabia, where all the richest and most connected kids get to be the fighter pilots.
Won't happen here because our fighter pilots actually fight.
Saudi pilots drop bombs on civilians in Yemen; Trump would consider that gallant air combat.
George Will
Unless you're there, you never know what happened. Esper said, "This isn't about Eddie Gallagher. It's about the chain of command."
That applies to you. Given the amount of mendacity displayed by this administration, you cannot say that you know for sure either.
Esper didn't get that playing this card publically was going to be a political boost for Trump. Low hanging political fruit. Unfortunatly Donnie can't pardon the Abu Garib guards, cause he probably would.
Better shut this board down since none of us are in the administration.
Either that, or talk about whether the improved clinch really is improved.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Don't melt snowflake.
And the improved clinch not is a hoax.
Uhmmm...who's melting?
There is a pattern here.
I may have been wrong.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ousted-navy-secretary-richard-spencer-says-trumps-intervention-in-navy-seal-case-was-shocking-and-unprecedented/2019/11/28/ac3f0356-11f4-11ea-bf62-eadd5d11f559_story.html
OMG,
This so against the UCMJ.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/us/politics/trump-seals-eddie-gallagher.html
Trump is playing with fire. Not that he cares.
This is the official Navy CNO's tweet about Gallagher, from Nov. 15.
Not having been in the military, I had to read the thread to get the gist of the wording, what was said and what wasn't.
That's code for "orders are orders. Its a lawful albeit ill-advised order, but its still an order."
Somebody else also pointed out it's code for, "we may have to pay him, but we don't trust him anymore."
One thing that the articles Comic linked remind me of, is Chris Kyle's book, "American Sniper." In it Kyle talks about how they became, dare I say it, bored of killing. They'd start trying different sorts of kills: pistol, knife, e-tool, whatever. Point is, when I read Gallagher got a knife and hatchet for his deployment, I wasn't surprised.
I don't know that Kyle is a reliable narrator. He also claimed to have kicked Jesse Ventura's ****, a claim that was certainly a lie.
Anyone who can be killed with an e-tool can also be taken prisoner. And look: this isn't some pantywaist general tying these guys' hands with the ROE. This is the law of armed conflict (i.e. war crimes), rules that are applicable always and everywhere.
I understand on all points. But regarding Kyle and his kill methods, I've read about it with other folks, too. Could they all be lying? Maybe. There also could be some truth to it, too.
Or understands.
George Will
Having never endured the inhumanity that is war, I have to temper my judgement. But I think there is some truth to the idea that some people join for the wrong reasons and it is also true that killing someone changes you on a fundamental level. I also think that it is telling that everyone in his unit testified against him.
I guess not everyone testified against him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/20/us/navy-seal-edward-gallagher-corey-scott.html