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Just kill me

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  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:
    And not going un-noticed at G7 was DJT's absence at climate change meeting with leaders

    and his answer to a reporter on oil--was the US was going to be #1 in oil production

    Well frack me

    even if we make marginal improvements---it's something
    but don't go out of the way to make it worse heading in the other direction

    instead of fracking and deep sea polluting---that money should go to research on alternatives

    old lines--I know

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    Not to mention we are letting China beat us in alternative energy technologies. You think we have a trade deficit now, just wait.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,206 Senior Member

    @creekyguy said:
    coment made 25 years from now. "Gee, remember the days when the Yellowstone had Cutthroat trout in it, instead of Asian Carp?"

    Its hard to be optomistic. We need the whole species and all developed nations to unite to deal with the problem. It doesn't look good.

    That's what they were saying 25-30 years ago.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    Instead of what we were guessing 30 yrs ago---how about real time

    My buddy fishes a clearwater Lake trout lake in Northwestern Ontario

    It's been money forever---little hard to get to---but that's why fishin is-was good

    Recently the lake has an exploding number of walleye (warmer water species) and decreasing number of trout

    After running into mnr and fishery bioligists---they tie this evolution directly to climate change and the warming of the water

    We can drive our heads further into the sand---but why??

    Myself---I have a near dry creekbed below my house ---I have never seen this dry in my lifetime

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,206 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:
    Instead of what we were guessing 30 yrs ago---how about real time

    My buddy fishes a clearwater Lake trout lake in Northwestern Ontario

    It's been money forever---little hard to get to---but that's why fishin is-was good

    Recently the lake has an exploding number of walleye (warmer water species) and decreasing number of trout

    After running into mnr and fishery bioligists---they tie this evolution directly to climate change and the warming of the water

    We can drive our heads further into the sand---but why??

    Myself---I have a near dry creekbed below my house ---I have never seen this dry in my lifetime

    Local stuff... not global. Might have been some other external factors in your little lake trout honey hole...maybe a little bucket biology taking place.

    My local trout stream has been running high all year. I have never seen it running this high in my 27 years of living in this place. Average flow this time is year 60 cfs. As of this morning it's at 209 cfs.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    Are we talking flows or temps??

    Science is telling us we will have polar opposite weather patterns almost next door to each other

    And global??---is Wisconsin gonna take in those Island residents that are soon to be under water in the Pacific?

    Why defend the indefensible??

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    And bucket biology---hardly

    NWO is polluted with world class walleye lakes---no need to add more

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,206 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:
    Are we talking flows or temps??

    Science is telling us we will have polar opposite weather patterns almost next door to each other

    And global??---is Wisconsin gonna take in those Island residents that are soon to be under water in the Pacific?

    Why defend the indefensible??

    Talking flows... You have one drying up...I have one that is flowing higher than normal for this time of year.

    My recent Colorado trip...flow was also up compared to previous years there.

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Buffco said:
    NZ, nuclear energy doesn't contribute to CO2 gases. Take it off your list.

    Not so fast there sparky...

    Whenever a nuclear plant is built to produce electricity, CO2 is emitted from all of the equipment used to build the plant and all the materials made to built that plant. And then there are the processes for mining and refining uranium ore and making reactor fuel...all of which require large amounts of energy and then more CO2 gasses are emitted.

    Then there is the radioactive waste factor...

    Do you think through your posts at all? I didn't say they required no CO2 to build, just that they don't emit any. Both coal and nuclear cost to build. The problem is that your precious coal poisons our water with mercury and requires the dumping of fly ash. All the while pumping massive CO2 into the atmosphere.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    We used to have coal fired power generation
    when you got on higher ground---the f'n horizon was brown

    Again not a link or a hunch---real time observations

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member

    19th century technology still being used in the 21st. Shut 'em down.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    @Buffco said:
    19th century technology still being used in the 21st. Shut 'em down.

    Absolutely
    This should not even be a discussion

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,206 Senior Member
    edited September 2019 #44

    @Buffco said:

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Buffco said:
    NZ, nuclear energy doesn't contribute to CO2 gases. Take it off your list.

    Not so fast there sparky...

    Whenever a nuclear plant is built to produce electricity, CO2 is emitted from all of the equipment used to build the plant and all the materials made to built that plant. And then there are the processes for mining and refining uranium ore and making reactor fuel...all of which require large amounts of energy and then more CO2 gasses are emitted.

    Then there is the radioactive waste factor...

    Do you think through your posts at all? I didn't say they required no CO2 to build, just that they don't emit any. Both coal and nuclear cost to build. The problem is that your precious coal poisons our water with mercury and requires the dumping of fly ash. All the while pumping massive CO2 into the atmosphere.

    Of course they don't emit any. Just can't ignore the CO2 emitted to build them either as if its some sort of panacea.

    Not my precious coal...and I'm NOT defending coal. I'm just being realistic in realizing it's not going to disappear anytime soon.

  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,586 Senior Member
    edited September 2019 #45
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    If we put resources into "Power Storage"---we would be so far ahead

    I researched this last year---looking 1st into Passive Solar panels

    and then into what I would need to produce enough power to run infrared heaters throughout my house

    It can be done---but it's when the sun sets or winter shortages

    I believe China is working on something---but this is where $$ should be going I believe

    Unfortunately---lobbyists dictate what gets done

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Buffco said:

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Buffco said:
    NZ, nuclear energy doesn't contribute to CO2 gases. Take it off your list.

    Not so fast there sparky...

    Whenever a nuclear plant is built to produce electricity, CO2 is emitted from all of the equipment used to build the plant and all the materials made to built that plant. And then there are the processes for mining and refining uranium ore and making reactor fuel...all of which require large amounts of energy and then more CO2 gasses are emitted.

    Then there is the radioactive waste factor...

    Do you think through your posts at all? I didn't say they required no CO2 to build, just that they don't emit any. Both coal and nuclear cost to build. The problem is that your precious coal poisons our water with mercury and requires the dumping of fly ash. All the while pumping massive CO2 into the atmosphere.

    Of course they don't emit any. Just can't ignore the CO2 emitted to build them either as if its some sort of panacea.

    Not my precious coal...and I'm NOT defending coal. I'm just being realistic in realizing it's not going to disappear anytime soon.

    This argument is so weak and full of holes it is laughable.

    Within one year the carbon emissions will be a push and from that point forward it is all savings.

    Being realistic would be admitting that Trump lied when he told WV they would be getting those coal jobs back.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,206 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    Being realistic would be admitting that Trump lied when he told WV they would be getting those coal jobs back.

    He's a politician. That's what they do is lie.

    Kinda like when Obama promised lower healthcare premiums for everyone. .. :D:D

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    Mine were much lower.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,076 Senior Member

    Here's a good (IMHO) overview of the current political atmosphere around climate change:

    Climate Change Could Be a Problem in 2020 ... for Democrats

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/03/climate-change-democratic-candidates-2020-227910

    Discuss.

    I am in the "we need to gradually but steadily wean ourselves off fossil fuels but not go berserk and drive the economy into the ditch doing so" camp.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    @Green Mt Boy said:
    Here's a good (IMHO) overview of the current political atmosphere around climate change:

    Climate Change Could Be a Problem in 2020 ... for Democrats

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/03/climate-change-democratic-candidates-2020-227910

    Discuss.

    I am in the "we need to gradually but steadily wean ourselves off fossil fuels but not go berserk and drive the economy into the ditch doing so" camp.

    Nothing sells bomb shelters like good ole fear

    Yes the world economy will collapse if we wean ourselves off oil
    Booooo!!

    But it's not just off oil---it's agriculture---forest practices---they way we build our cities---and the houses we build etc

  • creekyguycreekyguy Posts: 361 Senior Member
    edited September 2019 #52

    this video "Switch" is the best I have found on the energy situation: science based and honest. I have shown it to all my CC classes for several years now.
    www.switchenergyproject.com/education/stream-and-download

    https://vimeo.com/arcosfilms/review/65772747/1ea0c55e95

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,076 Senior Member
    edited September 2019 #53

    The Trump administration is threatening California with legal action over that state’s deal with four automakers to continue improving fuel efficiency even though the administration scrapped Obama era rules that do the same. The administration is saying federal law preempts the regulatory framework resulting from the deal. Off the top of my head I don’t know the legal ins and outs of the preemption issue but I have always understood that California had special authority under the Clean Air Act. Regardless, so far I have not read a policy based rationale for the Trump administration’s position vis a vis California. Makes me scratch my head.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/09/06/758388036/trump-administration-challenges-california-and-automakers-on-fuel-economy

    Edited to add a link to this NYT article. Apparently the reason for the fed’s threat is that the deal embarrassed Trump.

    https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEJBK2jYuXkaF2JJ9vIXyRNEqFwgEKg8IACoHCAowjuuKAzCWrzww9oAY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    Well we can't have that. Quick get the man a sharpie.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    OK if it's one of those "Slow" days---yer leavin me to my own devices at your peril :)

    With this being an Enviro thread and me laid up currently with a bad knee and time on my hands....

    Lets open the vault on save the world---with the background story from the SmArtist :)

    1..2...3 zzzzzzzzzz

    1.** GLOBAL CRISIS**

    Currently not as breaking news as when I 1st painted it. Still relevant and somewhat of a canary/coalmine thing
    With warmer seasons lasting longer---sea ice is taking that much more time to form
    Someone forgot to tell the polar bears tho--as they wake from their downtime at the same schedule---so they head out looking for that ice that's not there in many cases looking to hunt.
    Many times they're runnin out of steam and drown.
    So of course I put the cub on it's dead mother's back---cuz I'm a romantic

    1. OIL SAND LEGACY

    Proving we can argue here as well. This stems from a report that the oil polluting the Athabasca River in Alberta and downstream to Fort Chipewyan and Lake Athabasca (Huge water body) was not naturally occurring as the oil industry wanted you to believe.
    This was proven as many samples were taken On Top of snow---signalling that it's not natural but a bi-product spewed from the industry
    It was reported that in the spring thaw along the river it was equivalent to a tanker spill
    The then Conservative gov't had allowed the industry to monitor itself---didn't work so well
    They planted a couple trees and put a few buffalo there tho
    Dr. David Schindler of the University of Alberta told me "That's exactly what's happening"
    The crack in the maple leaf of course intentional

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    K---Didn't want to make too long in one post that would need approval

    1. RUPTURED SPECULATION

    This has a different twist---we all remember early 2000's when oil stocks could not be slowed
    Speculators were lining up to cash in
    Then "Deepwater Horizon" in the Gulf---and the much talk of the faulty integrity of the rig and base at ocean floor
    I couldn't help but think of the kids of the men on that rig--who had to watch this catastrophe on 24 hour news
    Originally I was going to paint in the Grim Reaper toasting champagne with the devil---I talked to a priest who reminded me that indeed the Grim Reaper is Not evil
    Thus

    1. URBAN BLISS

    This one less environmental and more my twisted look at society
    In my lifetime I've watched cities and towns expand their borders onto what was once agriculture or industrial lands.
    They seem to throw up subdivisions overnight---nicely fenced with 3 or 4 model homes
    Don't think I could ever park there tho

  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,977 Senior Member

    These should be PSA posters for getting off our @sses, and cleaning up our act.

    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    Wow, like, so positive!

    I really like your portrayal of sky in the polar bear painting.

    Those poor animals are doomed. 0% chance for a future. It is heart breaking to know they will, in the near future, starve themselves to death and into wild extinction.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,206 Senior Member

    I'm gonna do my part to save the world from fossil fuels. I just engineered this new chainsaw.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    @Shawn C. said:
    Wow, like, so positive!

    I really like your portrayal of sky in the polar bear painting.

    Those poor animals are doomed. 0% chance for a future. It is heart breaking to know they will, in the near future, starve themselves to death and into wild extinction.

    Thanks----I actually made that a conscious decision----warm water and ice--creating fog/mist/steam etc.

    Won't get off track too far here---but Re: my paintings----I try and put little subtle things in

    Like

    CANADIAN GOTHIC

    A northern spin on your "American Gothic"
    Anyway I named the boat in the work same as my own..."Alice E. "

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