'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
Not gonna watch that! I care about it a lot, but nothing will ever get done. Even if the Dems win the White & Senate, they would need to abolish the filibuster. Then the next time the R’s are in charge, Fox News will have demagouged the issue to the point where the Teabillys will be piping diesel fumes into their own homes because freedom and Jeebus.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
Well it's not like coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear energy are going away anytime soon. Unless you are thinking we go back to horse, buggy and candle power?
7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.
@NZ Indicator said:
Well it's not like coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear energy are going away anytime soon. Unless you are thinking we go back to horse, buggy and candle power?
We could do a lot better without having to go back to horse, buggy and candle power. No need for coal. If we need thermal energy to make electricity we can use natural gas, which creates much less greenhouse gases than coal. Nuke is fine in terms of GHG, but uneconomic compared to natural gas. We could use less oil for transportation and still get around without using horses. Electric or hybrid vehicles with the electricity coming from solar and wind. There is little need for oink-mobiles.
@NZ Indicator said:
Well it's not like coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear energy are going away anytime soon. Unless you are thinking we go back to horse, buggy and candle power?
7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.
And if conservatives have their way, it won't go away at all. Well until we enter the next Ice Age.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
@NZ Indicator said:
7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.
It could be worse. It could be a Trump rally. 7 minutes of that is too much to handle.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
@Green Mt Boy said:
We could do a lot better without having to go back to horse, buggy and candle power. No need for coal. If we need thermal energy to make electricity we can use natural gas, which creates much less greenhouse gases than coal. Nuke is fine in terms of GHG, but uneconomic compared to natural gas. We could use less oil for transportation and still get around without using horses. Electric or hybrid vehicles with the electricity coming from solar and wind. There is little need for oink-mobiles.
Coal is used to generate electricity and it's the cheapest source available and the most abundant at the moment. It isn't going anywhere.
Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.
@Buffco said:
NZ, nuclear energy doesn't contribute to CO2 gases. Take it off your list.
Not so fast there sparky...
Whenever a nuclear plant is built to produce electricity, CO2 is emitted from all of the equipment used to build the plant and all the materials made to built that plant. And then there are the processes for mining and refining uranium ore and making reactor fuel...all of which require large amounts of energy and then more CO2 gasses are emitted.
@Green Mt Boy said:
Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.
Natural gas emits less CO2...I'll give you that. But still not a panacea.
Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.
Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.
I hear you, but putting up with stinky people and crying kids is a small price to pay for saving the world.
Full disclosure: I drive my V-6 Toyota Tacoma that gets around 22 mpg 8 miles to work in Montpelier each weekday with just me in it. There are buses that go from various parts of the state to Montpelier and they get a fair amount of usage but none of them travel the route I have to drive.
I'm not sure Trains and busses aren't going to save the world and their use is limited to high population centers where car/trucks/suvs will still dominate the transportation needs of the majority that live in those places.
My V8 Nissan Titan is getting that kind of gas mileage. Was going to buy a 4runner last year but gas mileage is worse than a full size truck.
@Green Mt Boy said:
Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.
Natural gas emits less CO2...I'll give you that. But still not a panacea.
Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.
I know but we put up with you anyway.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.
I hear you, but putting up with stinky people and crying kids is a small price to pay for saving the world.
And not having to deal with traffic, finding parking, and dealing with all the expenses of owning a car. Car payments, insurance, annual repairs etc..... Not to mention guilt free happy hours after work.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
@Green Mt Boy said:
Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.
Natural gas emits less CO2...I'll give you that. But still not a panacea.
Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.
@Shawn C. said:
Classic Joe K. arguments. It can't be 100% fixed, so let's not even try. Reducto ad Absurdum.
That's his superhero name.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
@Shawn C. said:
Classic Joe K. arguments. It can't be 100% fixed, so let's not even try. Reducto ad Absurdum.
Just being a realist Shawn about what's possible or impossible. Anything any politician suggests is a "feel good" measure just to say "I tried to do something". People aren't going to change their ways and lifestyles.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
Replies
Inquiring minds want to know how much global warming would be caused if we all tuned in and watched all 7 hours
Okay.
That’s more hot air than the Amazon burning.
Not gonna watch that! I care about it a lot, but nothing will ever get done. Even if the Dems win the White & Senate, they would need to abolish the filibuster. Then the next time the R’s are in charge, Fox News will have demagouged the issue to the point where the Teabillys will be piping diesel fumes into their own homes because freedom and Jeebus.
Hashtag We’refuq’d
And not going un-noticed at G7 was DJT's absence at climate change meeting with leaders
and his answer to a reporter on oil--was the US was going to be #1 in oil production
Well frack me
Doesn't matter if D's or R's have power. It's climate change. Ain't no amount of money going to save the planet.
Yeah, fugdeirth
Well it's not like coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear energy are going away anytime soon. Unless you are thinking we go back to horse, buggy and candle power?
7 hours of that crap will be like watching the Cartoon Network.
We could do a lot better without having to go back to horse, buggy and candle power. No need for coal. If we need thermal energy to make electricity we can use natural gas, which creates much less greenhouse gases than coal. Nuke is fine in terms of GHG, but uneconomic compared to natural gas. We could use less oil for transportation and still get around without using horses. Electric or hybrid vehicles with the electricity coming from solar and wind. There is little need for oink-mobiles.
And if conservatives have their way, it won't go away at all. Well until we enter the next Ice Age.
It could be worse. It could be a Trump rally. 7 minutes of that is too much to handle.
Coal is used to generate electricity and it's the cheapest source available and the most abundant at the moment. It isn't going anywhere.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/climate/coal-global-warming.html
Electric and hybrid vehicles still require energy to make them. Robbing Peter to pay Paul...
https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits.htm
It's not as simple as it sounds.
True Dat!!!
Joe, The NYT article you linked to certainly shows that coal is the fuel of choice for making electricity in Asia, but it also points out that in the US natural gas, which is abundant, is cheaper than coal. Hence the decline of the US coal industry. I think we should let it continue to decline. Time to push away from the coal table. As to hybrid vehicles, while the process to manufacture them causes more GHG emissions than making conventional vehicles, the piece you linked says that over their lifetime hybrids are greener in terms of overall GHG Impact. We could also do better on mass transit, rail, and energy wasteful land use patterns too. No need for single occupancy vehicles to be inching along in congested traffic in suburban sprawl-ville . Change will happen-the millennials will see to it.
NZ, nuclear energy doesn't contribute to CO2 gases. Take it off your list.
And coal needs to be shut down, like 30 years ago.
Not so fast there sparky...
Whenever a nuclear plant is built to produce electricity, CO2 is emitted from all of the equipment used to build the plant and all the materials made to built that plant. And then there are the processes for mining and refining uranium ore and making reactor fuel...all of which require large amounts of energy and then more CO2 gasses are emitted.
Then there is the radioactive waste factor...
Natural gas emits less CO2...I'll give you that. But still not a panacea.
Single occupancy vehicles...some folks, myself included, don't like to be canned up on trains or busses with stinky people and crying kids.
I hear you, but putting up with stinky people and crying kids is a small price to pay for saving the world.
Full disclosure: I drive my V-6 Toyota Tacoma that gets around 22 mpg 8 miles to work in Montpelier each weekday with just me in it. There are buses that go from various parts of the state to Montpelier and they get a fair amount of usage but none of them travel the route I have to drive.
I'm not sure Trains and busses aren't going to save the world and their use is limited to high population centers where car/trucks/suvs will still dominate the transportation needs of the majority that live in those places.
My V8 Nissan Titan is getting that kind of gas mileage. Was going to buy a 4runner last year but gas mileage is worse than a full size truck.
I know but we put up with you anyway.
And not having to deal with traffic, finding parking, and dealing with all the expenses of owning a car. Car payments, insurance, annual repairs etc..... Not to mention guilt free happy hours after work.
Yes I can see that if you live in a high population center. Lucky I live in a place that I don't have to deal with that stuff.
I don't mind all that. The price you pay for freedom to go where you want, when you want.
Classic Joe K. arguments. It can't be 100% fixed, so let's not even try. Reducto ad Absurdum.
That's his superhero name.
Just being a realist Shawn about what's possible or impossible. Anything any politician suggests is a "feel good" measure just to say "I tried to do something". People aren't going to change their ways and lifestyles.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/07/climate/world-emissions-paris-goals-not-on-track.html
http://theconversation.com/why-reducing-carbon-emissions-from-cars-and-trucks-will-be-so-hard-113230
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/were-on-mission-impossible-to-solve-global-warming/2018/10/14/518acff8-ce34-11e8-a360-85875bac0b1f_story.html?noredirect=on
Yeah fug your kids and grandkids.
Reality sucks doesn't it?
https://energypost.eu/difficult-reduce-co2-emissions/
coment made 25 years from now. "Gee, remember the days when the Yellowstone had Cutthroat trout in it, instead of Asian Carp?"
Its hard to be optomistic. We need the whole species and all developed nations to unite to deal with the problem. It doesn't look good.