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the 1619 project

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  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @George K said:
    "The 1619 Project

    The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are."

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html?

    Do you not believe that slavery was a significant feature of our founding? It certainly had a huge impact on our economics and our culture.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @George K said:
    "The 1619 Project

    The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are."

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html?

    Do you not believe that slavery was a significant feature of our founding? It certainly had a huge impact on our economics and our culture.

    When is the 1492 Project being written?
    I'm sure the Native population played a part in history as well---and in most cases not favourable for them

    Hate to be too cynical--but maybe they don't make up a big enough part of the electorate

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 5,075 Senior Member

    This country was not really founded in 1619. It is not our true founding date.

    Jamestown, 1776, the ratification of the Constitution. Did the continuation of slavery makes those promises and sentiments ring hollow? Absolutely.

    But eventually those sentiments rang true. Slavery is not the shoulders upon which we all stand.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,650 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @George K said:
    "The 1619 Project

    The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are."

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html?

    Do you not believe that slavery was a significant feature of our founding? It certainly had a huge impact on our economics and our culture.

    Please see posts 11 and 24 above.

    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,220 Senior Member

    It’s so much easier to write about and pick at the scars in Americas History than to actually do anything . They certainly won’t write about the real issues that so many inner city children face every day. Like getting shot in a gang war or drug deal gone bad while walking to school. No, no, no, that’s taboo or even racist to even mention anymore. The constant head in the sand while the bodies continue to pile up EVERY SINGLE DAY says a lot about who they TRULY are if you ask me.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    Sounds an awful lot like the gun problem debate, Mike.

    But what you are describing isn’t happening because they are black. Inner city problems are the result of a socioeconomic sub-class we have in America. Different discussion, I think.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @George K said:

    @fishingcomic said:

    @George K said:
    "The 1619 Project

    The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are."

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html?

    Do you not believe that slavery was a significant feature of our founding? It certainly had a huge impact on our economics and our culture.

    Please see posts 11 and 24 above.

    I am not sure how post 24 is supported by what you posted from the article.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #39

    @MikeA said:
    It’s so much easier to write about and pick at the scars in Americas History than to actually do anything . They certainly won’t write about the real issues that so many inner city children face every day. Like getting shot in a gang war or drug deal gone bad while walking to school. No, no, no, that’s taboo or even racist to even mention anymore. The constant head in the sand while the bodies continue to pile up EVERY SINGLE DAY says a lot about who they TRULY are if you ask me.

    It is only racist if you believe that race is a primary contributing factor.

    And yes they do write about everyday. You just don't read about it. You know other from Breitbart.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,650 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @George K said:

    @fishingcomic said:

    @George K said:
    "The 1619 Project

    The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are."

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html?

    Do you not believe that slavery was a significant feature of our founding? It certainly had a huge impact on our economics and our culture.

    Please see posts 11 and 24 above.

    I am not sure how post 24 is supported by what you posted from the article.

    I once again refer you to Dr. Gates and other historians who have written scholarly and popular works on the role of African slaves and their descendants in American history.

    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    Fine however how does that support the thesis that this work is less than scholarly?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,399 Senior Member

    Well, I know Jeet Heer. I've been following him on Twitter for a couple of years. His opinion here (I read this a couple days ago) comes as no surprise.

    There's nothing wrong with revisionist history. "The one duty we owe to history," Oscar Wilde noted, "is to rewrite it." So there's definitely a case to be made for including marginalized voices in that history. Historians have been saying and doing that for a century, incorporating marxist, feminist, and consensus historiography into their scholarship.

    But that's not what the 1619 project is. Its entirely an ideological project, designed to "educate" all of us that racism is the cornerstone of everything we profess to believe about America. I was listening to Dan Crenshaw (R-Tx) on Joe Rogan the other day, and he said the real divide in this country, the great fissure that has opened up (to use his words), is whether America is based on good things or bad things. And the answer is of course, both. White supremacy is part of the story, but its not the whole story.

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,076 Senior Member

    I recently read a biography of Daniel Boone. It was an interesting book. One thing that caught my attention is the fact that when Boone and the party with him went through the Cumberland Gap in the early 1770s and started Boonesboro in what is now KY they brought a handful of slaves with them. I wondered about those slaves--there was not much in the book about them. I thought about the nature of their relationship with their "masters." It is not like they were plantation slaves who lived in little cabins with their white owners in a big mansion. The people who settled KY lived close to the bone. Given the hardscrabble existence the slaves with the Boone party must have lived closely with and among the white people. Boone also went on "long hunts" where he and sometimes another white person would go into the wilderness for months on end to hunt deer for their hides, which they'd pack out on horses. Sometimes a slave owned by Boone's companion (as far as I could tell Boone never owned any slaves) would accompany them on a long hunt. They must have gotten along pretty well.

    I have to say that knowing that the first white settlers in KY were helped by slaves kind of diminished my respect for them. There is an old gravestone in my VT town of an original settler who came in the 1780s and, according to the stone, cleared the woods to create seven "farms" (each one being a log cabin in a stump filled clearing where a little corn could be grown) for himself and family members. There were not any slaves helping him or any other other original settlers. They did what they had to do on their own.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,399 Senior Member

    eff me. I just typed out a 1000 word magnum opus and the board ate it. Its waiting to be approved. ****.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 5,075 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #46

    @sherb said:
    I was listening to Dan Crenshaw (R-Tx) on Joe Rogan the other day, and he said the real divide in this country, the great fissure that has opened up (to use his words), is whether America is based on good things or bad things.

    Todd Gitlin stepped by to take a victory lap.

  • FishTXFishTX Super Moderator Posts: 8,976 Senior Member

    I don't think slavery is the central part of the founding of the country. It is history that needs to be told along side everything else that is part of the founding.

    "We have to find someone who can not only fly this plane, but who didn't have fish for dinner."

    Crooow:This music would work better with women in bikinis shaking all over the place. I guess that's true of any music really.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,220 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #48

    .> @sherb said:

    eff me. I just typed out a 1000 word magnum opus and the board ate it. Its waiting to be approved. ****.

    Word is your friend.

  • creekyguycreekyguy Posts: 361 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #49

    The issue resolves down to what action should our revised knowlege of history lead us to take now. I fear that the result of this information will be a desire for programs to assuage white guilt over the past. This has been done before. The War on Poverty of LBJs Great Society programs led to pervasive welfare payments, but was eventually seen as counterproductive. Job preference programs have produced a strong backlash and are political poison. Busing was overall a failure. I would support strong efforts to improve schools, lower crime rates in black communities (not just keep black crime out of white areas), and improved infrastructure in black communities along with tax incentives for employers.
    But what we will probably hear about is reparations, which would probably be like welfare part 2.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,220 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #50

    What's missing from this conversation is what any of that revisionist horse sh- it is going to do for anyone? NOTHING. It's sole purpose is to further divide. They see that Trumps helping the AA community by adding AA jobs to historic highs, and justice reform, and they are scared shi - tless.

  • creekyguycreekyguy Posts: 361 Senior Member

    Revisionism is good when its true. If its not then tell us what is true.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    But that's not what the 1619 project is. Its entirely an ideological project, designed to "educate" all of us that racism is the cornerstone of everything we profess to believe about America.

    Show me where that is true. Because your intepretation of the story behind the story is just that a lose interpretation. There is nothing in that article to support your argument that this is an ideological hit piece.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @creekyguy said:
    But what we will probably hear about is reparations, which would probably be like welfare part 2.

    Most of the discussions I have seen and read have not revolved around direct payments to marginalized communities. Rather more a discussion of bringing economic development and investment into those communities.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    What's missing from this conversation is what any of that revisionist horse sh- it is going to do for anyone? NOTHING. It's sole purpose is to further divide. They see that Trumps helping the AA community by adding AA jobs to historic highs, and justice reform, and they are scared shi - tless.

    Read the article I provided. There are actual quotes from the series of essays that support the argument that it is actually quite the opposite.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/black-history-american-democracy.html

    There is very little here, although some of it washed over, that I did not already know from a High School education. So I am not getting very much of the "revisionism" that is being alleged.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    What's missing from this conversation is what any of that revisionist horse sh- it is going to do for anyone? NOTHING. It's sole purpose is to further divide. They see that Trumps helping the AA community by adding AA jobs to historic highs, and justice reform, and they are scared shi - tless.

    https://babylonbee.com/news/study-confirms-you-are-most-oppressed-person-on-planet?fbclid=IwAR0nDhnH7XXoUSRchV4Yhs1QJWJtCJRM6dIA-6g_cVR8lQOo1k-dKf8gcUM

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,220 Senior Member

    Wasn't sure where to put this but this seems approp.

    Dem Lawmaker Says Illegal Immigrants Are Needed To Mow ‘Our Beautiful Lawns’

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/50950/watch-dem-lawmaker-says-illegal-immigrants-are-molly-prince

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #58

    Unlike all the Republicans that actually hire undocumented workers, he admits it.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,399 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @sherb said:

    But that's not what the 1619 project is. Its entirely an ideological project, designed to "educate" all of us that racism is the cornerstone of everything we profess to believe about America.

    Show me where that is true. Because your intepretation of the story behind the story is just that a loose interpretation. There is nothing in that article to support your argument that this is an ideological hit piece.

    Well, of course not. But read the pieces themselves. As I said, some are quite good, and the first one is beautifully written. But like I said, an ideological project serves ideological goals, and not the truth.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    I have not seen that this is anything other than a reflection on the contributions that African-Americans have made to this country throughout their unique history. I have seen no evidence of this being an ideological project.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,399 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #61

    Oh, so now I have to provide examples? ugh. Fine. in a while. I haven't finished my coffee.

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