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the 1619 project

sherbsherb Senior MemberPosts: 6,409 Senior Member
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  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,227 Senior Member

    When the Russian Collusion narrative fails go with plan B.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    I guess the only time some people care about history is when you are putting the confederate flag on the state capital.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,409 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    When the Russian Collusion narrative fails go with plan B.

    ha. yeah.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,409 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    I guess the only time some people care about history is when you are putting the confederate flag on the state capital.

    I care about history a lot. I'd prefer that history reflect reality and not a meta-narrative that we make up.

    Some historiography can't be avoided. There has to be SOME narrative. Otherwise its all just raw data. But this strikes me as an ideological rather than a historical project.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,409 Senior Member
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 3,041 Senior Member

    Ok I read it (not the 1619 project)

    If this indeed is the case---the industry that is so fragile and sensitive when attacked by Trump as "fake news" has done themselves a dis-service

    If the above holds true---it seems some of this reporting is widely based on opinion
    and that's not reporting or news
    and in this instance that very opinion looks to "Interpret" history in their mindset

    This looks like the groundwork for the next election for sure
    Racist VS Non-Racist

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Does it involve one of those Obama waffles? I’m hungry.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 5,085 Senior Member

    @Shawn C. said:
    I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Does it involve one of those Obama waffles? I’m hungry.

    No chicken though. That's racist.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member

    Wife’s been wanting me to try chicken and waffles for years. Yeah... I’m good. Never sounded appealing to me.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,659 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    Some historiography can't be avoided. There has to be SOME narrative. Otherwise its all just raw data. But this strikes me as an ideological rather than a historical project.

    I am not reading most of the articles for this reason. You're better off reading serious history, Henry Louis Gates for instance.

    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 5,085 Senior Member

    @Shawn C. said:
    Wife’s been wanting me to try chicken and waffles for years. Yeah... I’m good. Never sounded appealing to me.

    I don't know Shawn. Bites of fried chicken, waffles and maple syrup? It can be pretty darn good.

    But I'm all about cultural misappropriation.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,659 Senior Member

    @Steven said:

    But I'm all about cultural misappropriation.

    Me too. Bacon and Cheddar on a toasted sesame seed bagel, for example.

    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,076 Senior Member

    I glanced at the linked article. Haven’t been following this in the NYT.

    Sure, claiming to re-write/re-define our history is an arrogant thing to say. Saying black folks solely made the country what it is is hyperbole, and inaccurate. But, it is OK, they did (and do) have a big role.

    People, their emotions and their egos-quite the thing.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    @fishingcomic said:
    I guess the only time some people care about history is when you are putting the confederate flag on the state capital.

    I care about history a lot. I'd prefer that history reflect reality and not a meta-narrative that we make up.

    Some historiography can't be avoided. There has to be SOME narrative. Otherwise its all just raw data. But this strikes me as an ideological rather than a historical project.

    How is discussing the history or slavery ideological other than it makes some white people uncomfortale?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @Green Mt Boy said:

    I glanced at the linked article. Haven’t been following this in the NYT.

    Sure, claiming to re-write/re-define our history is an arrogant thing to say. Saying black folks solely made the country what it is is hyperbole, and inaccurate. But, it is OK, they did (and do) have a big role.

    People, their emotions and their egos-quite the thing.

    They literally built the White House.

    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/25/michelle-obama/michelle-obama-correct-white-house-was-built-slave/

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    There's just one problem: Atlanta is frequently recognized as a success story for expanding African-American prosperity, with middle- and upper-middle-class majority-black suburbs flourishing throughout the Atlanta metropolitan area.

    One, Majority Black suburbs kind of supports the idea of segregation, Two, this is such a new development as to be irrelevant to the issue. Are we going to suggest that Atlanta has no racist history?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 5,085 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    How is discussing the history or slavery ideological other than it makes some white people uncomfortale?

    Uhmmm….because this isn't what the 1619 Project is about?

    The 1619 Project is about changing the central narrative of our country's founding and its institutions.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,227 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #19

    They should have called it 1984

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @Steven said:

    @fishingcomic said:
    How is discussing the history or slavery ideological other than it makes some white people uncomfortale?

    Uhmmm….because this isn't what the 1619 Project is about?

    The 1619 Project is about changing the central narrative of our country's founding and its institutions.

    Is it really? Or is that what the right wing media is telling you it is about? Some how I doubt anyone here commenting, myself included, read the 100 pages.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,409 Senior Member

    I read a bunch of it, actually. some of the pieces are quite good, if factually problematic.

    More importantly, I read the backstory as to how the 1619 project came about. MikeA is right; the NYT wanted to change the narrative from Russian Collusion. So yes, the 1619 project is entirely an ideological framing.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    Oh are you now reading the Epoch Times also? Why would the NYT want to change that narrative?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,409 Senior Member

    I don't know what that is.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,659 Senior Member

    Sherb's right. Read the backstory in the Times, that bastion of rightwad conservatism. I read enough of the pieces to get it that this is a series in search of facts to fit a conclusion. Questionable journalism, bad history. The Times is doing itself and all of us a disservice.

    I said earlier there are better sources and mentioned Henry Louis Gates. His popular history works are founded in serious research, as are his PBS specials.

    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    @sherb said:
    I don't know what that is.

    Where did you find this "back story?"

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,659 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @sherb said:
    I don't know what that is.

    Where did you find this "back story?"

    It was in the Times, heralding the series.

    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,409 Senior Member

    yeah, it was in the NYT itself. Did you think I got it from Breitbart?

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    edited August 2019 #28

    Somehow I doubt that a back story from the NYT would say that it was written to change the narrative.

    I did suspect that you were reading National Review.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 11,659 Senior Member

    "The 1619 Project

    The 1619 Project is a major initiative from The New York Times observing the 400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery. It aims to reframe the country’s history, understanding 1619 as our true founding, and placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are."

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/1619-america-slavery.html?

    The GOP big tent now is the size of a pup tent, its floor splattered with guano.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member

    So this is wrong?

    “As much as I hope white readers will read it and have their minds blown, I hope that black people will read it, and feel a sense of ownership over this country and a sense of pride in our resilience,” Ms. Hannah-Jones said. “I hope to reframe the way we see ourselves in America.”

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,227 Senior Member

    See the Slate article too.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/new-york-times-meeting-transcript.html

    Dean Baquet:.
    We built our newsroom to cover one story, and we did it truly well. Now we have to regroup, and shift resources and emphasis to take on a different story.

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