The deficit, it's HUGE!

MikeAMikeA Senior MemberPosts: 4,027 Senior Member

Two and a half years into his term, President Trump has little to show for breaking with erstwhile Republican Party orthodoxy on trade and budget policy.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/452045-make-americas-deficits-great-again

Are we on a path to ever pay it down? Will there be anything left for us in 10 years?

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Replies

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,045 Senior Member
    edited July 10 #2

    @MikeA said:

    Are we on a path to ever pay it down? Will there be anything left for us in 10 years?

    No, and no.

    I've said it before and will say it again: we need to cut spending (defense AND entitlements) AND increase taxes. Of course, that will never happen as our political leaders on both sides of the aisle have no guts to make tough and unpopular decisions.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,115 Senior Member

    @Green Mt Boy said:

    @MikeA said:

    Are we on a path to ever pay it down? Will there be anything left for us in 10 years?

    No, and no.

    I've said it before and will say it again: we need to cut spending (defense AND entitlements) AND increase taxes. Of course, that will never happen as our political leaders on both sides of the aisle have no guts to make tough and unpopular decisions.

    Cut the needless spending and you don't need to increase taxes...

    https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/commentary/spending-cuts-not-tax-hikes-boost-economic-growth

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,027 Senior Member
    edited July 10 #4

    With all the combined taxes collected it's truly mind boggling that we're in this situation. What I'm pretty sure of is that the raising taxes model doesn't work. It's never enough. We're at what, 30% of everyone's income? Not including state and all the other BS taxes? Good lord man why work if all you're doing is paying taxes. I'd rather fish all week and be poor.

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,045 Senior Member
    edited July 10 #5

    I'm OK with low-ish corporate tax rates, as I see corporations as merely mechanisms to ultimately pass wealth through to individuals. However, I am OK with raising the top marginal rate for individuals, or having a new rate for ultra high marginal incomes. Nothing confiscatory, but enough to raise some money and enhance fairness/progressivity, especially since entitlements need to be reined in. We shouldn't let the billionaires max out on the oink factor-the dial should be set at "medium"-if we're going to limit increases in social security benefits, raise the retirement age, or increase the level of income subject to social security and medicare taxes, which we probably need to do.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,102 Senior Member

    W inherited a surplus. Obama reduced it by half and the only time deficits matter to Republicans is when a Democrat is in the WH. Reagan never once submitted a balanced budget.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,102 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,102 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,930 Senior Member

    Well this came home to roost sooner than expected

    Was it not the much heralded tax cut that was gonna save the world---even tho common sense said it would lead to deficit spending

    How does that go again??----cut the richest taxes---they will then re-invest in the middle class ---therefore creating a bigger tax base---ya know Wall st. trickle down
    You can find an edition in the fantasy section of the bookstore

    According to this story (deficit 25% higher than when he took office)

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 1,045 Senior Member
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,027 Senior Member

    Ok,, I guess I don't get it. He's on the top five list.

    The Top Five Contributors by Percent
    Franklin D. Roosevelt: Percentage-wise, President Roosevelt increased the debt by the largest amount. Although he only added $236 billion, this was a 1,048 percent increase from the $23 billion debt level left by President Herbert Hoover.

    Of course, the Great Depression took an enormous bite out of revenues. The New Deal cost billions. But FDR's major contribution to the debt was World War II spending. He added $209 billion to the debt between 1942 and 1945.

    Woodrow Wilson: President Wilson was the second-largest contributor to the debt, percentage-wise. He added $21 billion, which was a 727 percent increase over the $2.9 billion debt of his predecessor. Wilson had to pay for World War I. During his presidency, the Second Liberty Bond Act gave Congress the right to adopt the national debt ceiling.

    Ronald Reagan: President Reagan increased the debt by 186 percent. Reaganomics added $1.86 trillion. Reagan's brand of supply-side economics didn't grow the economy enough to offset the lost revenue from its tax cuts. That was partly because Reagan increased the defense budget by 35 percent.

    George W. Bush: President Bush added $5.849 trillion, the second-greatest dollar amount. It was the fourth-largest percentage increase. Bush increased the debt by 101 percent from where it started at $5.8 trillion on September 30, 2001. That's the end of FY 2001, which was President Clinton's last budget.

    Bush launched the War on Terror in response to the 9/11 attacks. The War on Terror included two wars. The War in Afghanistan cost $1.1 trillion and the Iraq War cost $1 trillion. They increased military spending to record levels of $600 billion to $800 billion a year.

    President Bush also responded to the 2001 recession by passing the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act. He approved a $700 billion bailout package for banks to combat the 2008 global financial crisis. Both Presidents Bush and Obama had to contend with higher mandatory spending for Social Security and Medicare.

    Barack Obama: Under President Obama, the national debt grew the most dollar-wise. He added $8.588 trillion. This 74 percent increase was the fifth-largest. Obama's budgets included the economic stimulus package. It added $831 billion by cutting taxes, extending unemployment benefits, and funding public works projects.

    The Obama tax cuts added $858 billion to the debt in two years. Obama's budget increased defense spending to between $700 billion and $800 billion a year. Federal income was down, thanks to lower tax receipts from the 2008 financial crisis. He also sponsored the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. It was designed to reduce the debt by $143 billion over 10 years. But these savings didn't show up until the later years.

    https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,027 Senior Member

    Did you read this Bushy??
    "The Obama tax cuts added $858 billion to the debt in two years. "

    What an idiot. Right?

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,930 Senior Member

    Yes I am quite literate

    Nice job of cherry picking tho

    Obama inherited a bloody mess from his predecessor

    A financial collapse and bailing out businesses too big to fail
    A housing market that needed to be propped up and repaired after the Fanny Mae fiasco
    Several wars started by Bush
    And yes Obamacare---a cost to the budget for the good of it's citizens as opposed to Trump's cuts that expand accounts in Panama

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,930 Senior Member

    So yes--you can justify FDR's #'s due to the times

    What did Obama walk into?

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,027 Senior Member

    Hey you don’t have to explain to me about tax breaks. I love them and I don’t care who gives them out. I’ll take all my hard earned money I can get. I don’t flip flop my opinions of tax breaks based on what party’s in office.
    If only there weren’t any Republicans you could finally live in the euphoric world that’s just within reach till another Republican comes along and snatches it all away again.
    FTR I think OBL started the war…

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,930 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Hey you don’t have to explain to me about tax breaks. I love them and I don’t care who gives them out. I’ll take all my hard earned money I can get. I don’t flip flop my opinions of tax breaks based on what party’s in office.
    If only there weren’t any Republicans you could finally live in the euphoric world that’s just within reach till another Republican comes along and snatches it all away again.
    FTR I think OBL started the war…

    The Afghan war
    Iraq----That is a stretch

    Tax breaks need to be viewed with open eyes
    If revenue is lost---it's coming out of services somewhere

    To claim it can all be made up by cutting wasteful spending never works
    Wasteful spending is usually self serving and gains favour by an electorate somewhere

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,986 Senior Member

    Nah. Those wars are cheap.

    I know that's hard to believe, but as a percentage of GDP, the cost is not significant. The bailout stimulus significantly increased the deficit. The biggest current driver of the federal budget is medicare. Normally we can grow out of a deficit, but honestly after the longest period of economic expansion in our history, the fact that its so high is cause for concern.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,971 Senior Member

    Wait a doggone minute. Great Leader promised us that his tax cuts would cure the c l a p, make us all rich and eliminate the deficit.

    What possibly could have gone wrong?

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,027 Senior Member

    He also said Tax the Cuts Would Be 'Rocket Fuel' For The Economy.

    S&P 500 hits round-number milestone at 3000 for the first time in history
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sp-500-hits-round-number-milestone-at-3000-for-the-first-time-in-history-2019-07-10

  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,933 Senior Member


    Those wars may be cheap in terms of money, but the cost in the lives of innocent civilians (over a million in the various wars we have instigated for the last 20 years). This is unacceptable and our policy of endless wars should end immediately.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,102 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Hey you don’t have to explain to me about tax breaks. I love them and I don’t care who gives them out. I’ll take all my hard earned money I can get. I don’t flip flop my opinions of tax breaks based on what party’s in office.
    If only there weren’t any Republicans you could finally live in the euphoric world that’s just within reach till another Republican comes along and snatches it all away again.
    FTR I think OBL started the war…

    How much did you get really? Because I got bupkis in fact I paid roughly $300 more.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,102 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,027 Senior Member

    I didn't have to pay for the first time since not claiming children. That's a big win for me.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 4,027 Senior Member

    This.
    For the first time in our nation's history, there is now a federal department spending an average of more than $100 billion per month.

    No, it is not the Department of Defense, which is charged with the core federal responsibility of defending us from foreign enemies.

    It is the Department of Health and Human Services, which, if Democratic Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont has his way, will run the "Medicare for All" program.

    https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/1-federal-department-now-spending-100-billion-month

  • SilverCreekSilverCreek Senior Member Posts: 131 Senior Member

    I haven't read all the comments but I did listen to a podcast on Modern Monetary Theory. MMT states that deficits don't matter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

    So not everyone buys the mantra that deficits are bad, especially "OAC" = Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) So if you think Trump is a spender, you ain't seen nothing yet.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/25/everything-you-need-know-about-theory-that-deficits-dont-matter/

    https://qz.com/1517842/do-deficits-matter/

    MMT supporters use Japan as the model. The Japanese are not buying that argument and are very concerned about their deficits.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/05/business/modern-monetary-theorys-reluctant-poster-child-japan.html

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-05/japan-worries-about-its-deficit-as-mmt-argues-there-s-no-need

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/07/09/commentary/world-commentary/can-mmt-japans-savio

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 24,102 Senior Member
    edited July 11 #27

    I have no interest in paying to see those links.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,930 Senior Member

    S/C wrote

    "So not everyone buys the mantra that deficits are bad, especially "OAC" = Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) So if you think Trump is a spender, you ain't seen nothing yet."

    Fiscal responsibility is somewhat important---ask Greece

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,957 Senior Member

    Jesus.... We’re not Greece.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,930 Senior Member

    @Shawn C. said:
    Jesus.... We’re not Greece.

    Soo---your in favour of spending the cupboards bare?

    Ireland and Spain also had deficit issues

    I'm in favour of Gov't spending to make its citizens lives better. ie healthcare as opposed to making fat cats lives better with tax cuts..
    and this usually comes with a reasonable tax base as revenue

    But disregard of ballooning deficits is not leading anywhere good either

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,957 Senior Member

    I’m simply stating that the U.S. is not Greece. Slightly different, ya know. ;)

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