Capitalism or Die (literally)

BushartBushart Senior MemberPosts: 2,426 Senior Member

So Pharma Bro is in jail

Other big Pharma convicted for knowingly pushing opioids

Now Insulin prices outta reach...cuz u know

Diabetes is a life choice

Nice to see Big Pharma so concerned for their fellow man

Dr. Salk---where are you?

https://ctvnews.ca/health/caravan-of-americans-cross-into-canada-just-to-get-affordable-insulin-1.4415683

«13

Replies

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,693 Senior Member
    edited May 12 #2

    I'm not defending big pharma, just pointing out that that health care everywhere is rationed one way or another. The head (or former head) of Britain's NHS pointed out that in the UK it is rationed by what right wing U.S. politicians call "death panels", AKA cost/ benefit analysis commissions - if the numbers are not good, tough excrement; and in the U.S.A. by "market forces" AKA do you have enough money to pay for this treatment/medicine? - if not, tough excrement.

    I am not sure which is better. Living in the USA and having Platinum standard insurance, Medicare plus retiree employer subsidized BC/BS, for which we pay about $850 a month in total, I am happy with what we have. We have no co-pays for office visits, surgery or hospital stays, very reasonable ones for Rx drugs*.

    Neither do we have restrictions on what doctors we may see or what procedures/surgeries we may have, aside from elective cosmetic surgery. Waiting times are subject only to doctor's/surgeon's schedules. English friends of mine using the NHS envy these features.

    Others' experience and opinions may vary.

    • Full disclosure - I take two very expensive medicines that the VA provides at no cost to me, ditto hearing aids with a retail value of $7K. I have a Purple Heart and thus am not subject to VA income qualification limits.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member

    I don't think that needs to apply to insulin.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    From the story

    "Among the caravan was Nicole Smith Holt, whose 26-year-old son, Alec Smith, died because the high price of insulin in the U.S. caused him to ration his supply.

    “Alec would still be here today if I had known that I could come to Canada,” Smith Holt said."

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    @George K said:
    I'm not defending big pharma, just pointing out that that health care everywhere is rationed one way or another. The head (or former head) of Britain's NHS pointed out that in the UK it is rationed by what right wing U.S. politicians call "death panels", AKA cost/ benefit analysis commissions - if the numbers are not good, tough excrement; and in the U.S.A. by "market forces" AKA do you have enough money to pay for this treatment/medicine? - if not, tough excrement.

    I am not sure which is better. Living in the USA and having Platinum standard insurance, Medicare plus retiree employer subsidized BC/BS, for which we pay about $850 a month in total, I am happy with what we have. We have no co-pays for office visits, surgery or hospital stays, very reasonable ones for Rx drugs*.

    Neither do we have restrictions on what doctors we may see or what procedures/surgeries we may have, aside from elective cosmetic surgery. Waiting times are subject only to doctor's/surgeon's schedules. English friends of mine using the NHS envy these features.

    Others' experience and opinions may vary.

    • Full disclosure - I take two very expensive medicines that the VA provides at no cost to me, ditto hearing aids with a retail value of $7K. I have a Purple Heart and thus am not subject to VA income qualification limits.

    I get that each country has its challenges

    But one factor not in your list is Life expectancy ---where Canada and the UK are near the top of the list---the US--not so much

    So if the bar is set when you cross the finish line...then??

    And the "caravan" is somewhat evidence of problems in the system---life altering

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member

    Funny how with even with all that rationing in Canada, there is enough insulin for Americans to buy.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    Yeah--don't think supply is an issue---unless all of the US comes to buy

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,637 Senior Member

    That’s crazy to die when you can buy insulin at Walmart without a script for $25.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:

    Diabetes is a life choice

    To some degree it is. Based on lifestyle diet choices and the amount of activity or lack there of.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member

    True for Adult Onset Diabetes, not so for Juvenile, which we have turned into a lifetime of debt.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    True for Adult Onset Diabetes, not so for Juvenile, which we have turned into a lifetime of debt.

    Yup---have a couple cousins that have been dealing with this since kids
    Def not lifestyle

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member

    I have a friend whose father got it after a fever.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member

    I'll bet its all the meatheads buying up the available supply.

    Yes, Insulin is one of the many artificial ways to help pack on muscle.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    edited May 14 #14

    Despite the fact that production costs have not changed dramatically the cost has gone up astronomically. It is not like it is running out. Some things should not be for profit.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member
    edited May 14 #15

    @sherb said:
    I'll bet its all the meatheads buying up the available supply.
    Yes, Insulin is one of the many artificial ways to help pack on muscle.

    Ya gotta wonder who thinks Of this?? (using insulin for unintended reasons that is)

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:

    @fishingcomic said:
    True for Adult Onset Diabetes, not so for Juvenile, which we have turned into a lifetime of debt.

    Yup---have a couple cousins that have been dealing with this since kids
    Def not lifestyle

    Majority of the cases are lifestyle choices though. Less than 200,000 people under age 20 have been diagnosed with it.

    You may think I'm trying to down play it (I'm not) but those are the facts. And it sucks for those have no control over it.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again...The U.S. keeps attacking the wrong end of the stick. It's not how we pay, It's how much we have to pay. The first politician that comes along and says they are pushing for a plan that lowers prices / regulates how much we pay for medical services and pharmaceuticals has my vote.

    All of the other plans (including Obummercare) do nothing more than shift the money around and someone still pays for the high costs of it all.

    The U.S. needs something like this...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patented_Medicine_Prices_Review_Board

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    There's recent talk in Canada about a "kinda" Pharmacare plan

    Which has the Gov't negotiating prescription prices as they can buy in huge volumes
    wait and see

    In Ontario---people under 25 without a private plan can access 4400 drugs free

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member

    The U.S. government needs to put on cap on pharma prices and the cost of medical services instead of playing the game of shifting the cost around as to who pays for it.

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/072116/us-healthcare-costs-compared-other-countries.asp

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    Watched Beto preach Pharmacare in his platform

    But when your polling at 5%---you possibly can promise rainbows??

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:
    The U.S. government needs to put on cap on pharma prices and the cost of medical services instead of playing the game of shifting the cost around as to who pays for it.

    The Good Intentions Paving Company stopped by to say it's available.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,693 Senior Member

    @Steven said:

    @NZ Indicator said:
    The U.S. government needs to put on cap on pharma prices and the cost of medical services instead of playing the game of shifting the cost around as to who pays for it.

    The Good Intentions Paving Company stopped by to say it's available.

    The Let's Have Happy U.S Consumers Pay to Pave Europe and Japan Tarmac Company beat them to it.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member

    But, but, but... We will immediately become Venezuela, George! ;)

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    Well here's the Hypocrite of it all

    Go way back to when ObamaCare was being introduced

    Remember the GOP proposed Death Panels??...gonna kill Gramma??

    Well it seems now it's OK to let the market dictate Drug prices---no money--too bad

    Now you know why I labelled this Capitalism....Drive the price up to all the market will bare

    Profits are the new Golden Calf (Not that profits are bad--but when someone's life is in the balance???)

    It doesn't matter what the numbers you create say----some people are falling thru the cracks and there's no safety net---and the consequences are Dire

    So 2020 takes on a whole new consequence

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,583 Senior Member

    You nailed it Bushart. Protect the fetus but **** the person.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member

    @Shawn C. said:
    You nailed it Bushart. Protect the fetus but **** the person.

    Well you have summarized this perfectly

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Bushart said:

    @fishingcomic said:
    True for Adult Onset Diabetes, not so for Juvenile, which we have turned into a lifetime of debt.

    Yup---have a couple cousins that have been dealing with this since kids
    Def not lifestyle

    Majority of the cases are lifestyle choices though. Less than 200,000 people under age 20 have been diagnosed with it.

    You may think I'm trying to down play it (I'm not) but those are the facts. And it sucks for those have no control over it.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again...The U.S. keeps attacking the wrong end of the stick. It's not how we pay, It's how much we have to pay. The first politician that comes along and says they are pushing for a plan that lowers prices / regulates how much we pay for medical services and pharmaceuticals has my vote.

    All of the other plans (including Obummercare) do nothing more than shift the money around and someone still pays for the high costs of it all.

    The U.S. needs something like this...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patented_Medicine_Prices_Review_Board

    How much we pay is about who we pay. Why should anyone make a profit on paying peoples medical bills?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:
    How much we pay is about who we pay. Why should anyone make a profit on paying peoples medical bills?

    They shouldn't make a profit. The **** needs to be regulated.

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 913 Senior Member

    I agree. > @Bushart said:

    Well here's the Hypocrite of it all

    Go way back to when ObamaCare was being introduced

    Remember the GOP proposed Death Panels??...gonna kill Gramma??

    Well it seems now it's OK to let the market dictate Drug prices---no money--too bad

    Now you know why I labelled this Capitalism....Drive the price up to all the market will bare

    Profits are the new Golden Calf (Not that profits are bad--but when someone's life is in the balance???)

    It doesn't matter what the numbers you create say----some people are falling thru the cracks and there's no safety net---and the consequences are Dire

    So 2020 takes on a whole new consequence

    I agree. We can have Medicare for All up the wazoo but we still won’t be able to afford healthcare. Truth be told, we need Death Panels.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member

    @George K said:

    @Steven said:

    @NZ Indicator said:
    The U.S. government needs to put on cap on pharma prices and the cost of medical services instead of playing the game of shifting the cost around as to who pays for it.

    The Good Intentions Paving Company stopped by to say it's available.

    The Let's Have Happy U.S Consumers Pay to Pave Europe and Japan Tarmac Company beat them to it.

    This is exactly it. Who subsidizes Canadian and European drug prices? Americans.

    Maybe when he's done with China, Trump can go after Canada and Europe to open their drug markets.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member

    @NZ Indicator said:

    @Bushart said:

    @fishingcomic said:
    True for Adult Onset Diabetes, not so for Juvenile, which we have turned into a lifetime of debt.

    Yup---have a couple cousins that have been dealing with this since kids
    Def not lifestyle

    Majority of the cases are lifestyle choices though. Less than 200,000 people under age 20 have been diagnosed with it.

    You may think I'm trying to down play it (I'm not) but those are the facts. And it sucks for those have no control over it.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again...The U.S. keeps attacking the wrong end of the stick. It's not how we pay, It's how much we have to pay. The first politician that comes along and says they are pushing for a plan that lowers prices / regulates how much we pay for medical services and pharmaceuticals has my vote.

    All of the other plans (including Obummercare) do nothing more than shift the money around and someone still pays for the high costs of it all.

    The U.S. needs something like this...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patented_Medicine_Prices_Review_Board

    Why is it OK to regulate drug prices but not regulate medical loss ratios - which basically put your wife out of the health insurance brokerage business?

    There's an internal inconsistency here.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member

    @Steven said:

    @George K said:

    @Steven said:

    @NZ Indicator said:
    The U.S. government needs to put on cap on pharma prices and the cost of medical services instead of playing the game of shifting the cost around as to who pays for it.

    The Good Intentions Paving Company stopped by to say it's available.

    The Let's Have Happy U.S Consumers Pay to Pave Europe and Japan Tarmac Company beat them to it.

    This is exactly it. Who subsidizes Canadian and European drug prices? Americans.

    Maybe when he's done with China, Trump can go after Canada and Europe to open their drug markets.

    It cost pennies to produce these drugs, and we subsidize their development. Big pharma spends more money on marketing than R&D. They are not going broke selling those drugs in Europe and Canada.

    Two words Martin Shkreli.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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