I Guess Now We All Pay More

BushartBushart Senior MemberPosts: 2,700 Senior Member
edited May 2018 in The Lodge #1

So The Donald shows the world today how he treats friends and allies
All under the guise of security---cuz it's illegal with the WTO and Nafta

the 25% tariff on steel imports and 10 on Alum.

Including Long time allies in Nato, Norad and G7--Canada, EU and Mexico
So you knew it was coming---trade war---tariffs now coming from all parties

So 1/2 of US steel exports go to Canada---or 4.5 billion---now are taxed the same amount
Canada announced 16.6 Billion in new duties from the US
The EU announced Yachts, Bourbon,OJ and motorcycles
Mexico on AG products

Our PM announced we will source these products now from trade friendly countries--without duties
This will hurt many across border lines

So much winning

«1

Replies

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member

    CNN? Who reads that batshit crazy tripe?

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    Pick one--they're everywhere

    bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44320221

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,797 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    CNN? Who reads that batshit crazy tripe?

    Dude.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member

    @sherb said:

    @MikeA said:
    CNN? Who reads that batshit crazy tripe?

    Dude.

    Ha. I get that all the time here so I thought I'd reciprocate for once.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member

    That other article didn't even seem to have an author??
    This one did.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43285533

    First they came for the washing machines.

    Then the solar panels.

    And now steel and aluminium.

    President Donald Trump has always made it clear he wanted a new approach to trade.
    The gains from free trade - for example, lower consumer prices because of the reduced cost of imported goods and the reduction in poverty in far off countries - are diffuse, distant and difficult to quantify.

    Conversely, the "impact" of cheaper imports - for example a closed factory - is concentrated and easy to see.

    During the Presidential campaign I visited Monessan, Pennsylvania, the heart of America's rust belt.

    It used to be a steel producing town of 40,000 people.

    That number has fallen to 7,000 and the town is scarred by the derelict skeletons of once prosperous factories.

    Unemployment and poverty rates are crippling high.

  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,797 Senior Member

    I'll let Steven and David Ricardo weigh in on this one. . . I'll just say that there is very little in life with as much empirical support as the benefits of free trade.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    That other article didn't even seem to have an author??
    This one did.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43285533

    First they came for the washing machines.

    Then the solar panels.

    And now steel and aluminium.

    President Donald Trump has always made it clear he wanted a new approach to trade.
    The gains from free trade - for example, lower consumer prices because of the reduced cost of imported goods and the reduction in poverty in far off countries - are diffuse, distant and difficult to quantify.

    Conversely, the "impact" of cheaper imports - for example a closed factory - is concentrated and easy to see.

    During the Presidential campaign I visited Monessan, Pennsylvania, the heart of America's rust belt.

    It used to be a steel producing town of 40,000 people.

    That number has fallen to 7,000 and the town is scarred by the derelict skeletons of once prosperous factories.

    Unemployment and poverty rates are crippling high.

    You have heard of automation..correct?

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    I like Frum's comment down the roll---Putin got his money's worth today

    Drive up world oil prices by backing out of Iran deal--now this

    https://twitter.com/BruceAHeyman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member

    I write code for automation, what about it? Without jobs, automation is pointless.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #12

    Delete

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    I write code for automation, what about it? Without jobs, automation is pointless.

    Not that many years ago---across the north---there was a pulp and paper mill in every 2nd town
    Old clunkers--rolling away and employing just about everyone in that town

    But along came modernization, automation and optimization
    Now Just one newer paper machine could fill the orders of 5 old clunkers in those towns
    What do you think happened?

    Steel is the same

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member
    edited May 2018 #14

    Were those plants and all their intellectual property relocated to China? Because that's what killed our manufacturing base. Not automation.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Were those plants and all their intellectual property relocated to China? Because that's what killed our manufacturing base. Not automation.

    Check---China is the problem-sooo better take it out on others
    I'll go out on a limb here and guess your republican so your side is speaking
    Wait for it cuz the head of your finance committee and Ways and means is comin to have "The Talk" with buddy to spell it out

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,351 Senior Member

    Mike's right...It's easy to point to a closed factory and say this is a negative of free trade, while the benefits are spread over the population. Also, you can't prove a negative...would a factory not exist if it weren't for free trade?

    But tariff's aren't the way you help the people who were hurt.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    Well with the EU economy just slightly smaller than China's-----likely not a good idea to make enemies

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,868 Senior Member

    "Trade wars are easy to win." The Leader said that on several occasions. It is our patriotic duty to believe it.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,023 Senior Member
    edited June 2018 #20
  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 1,506 Senior Member

    EPA (the devil) had a lot to do with the steel mills shutting down in Pittsburgh. I guy I worked with who worked in one (management) said it was 50-50, EPA and farming it out overseas.
    I never really studied this, but he lived it, so am assuming he wasn't lying to me.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    Studies out when this tariff thing started was that you lose 18 jobs for every one created

    Here's a Trump voter who is tired of winning

    cbc.ca/news/world/trump-steel-tariffs-canada-u-s-allies-1.4686734

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member

    My grandfather always told me Can't never could do anything. There are sayers and then there are dooers. The sayers or naysayers have been wrong over and over and over about this Prez. He's busy doing, and you can admit it or not, I don't' care, but he's doing a pretty **** good job so far. I'll trust his judgement on this one too.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    Well when history says it already has failed---why not try it again?
    All for upcoming elections

    Saying Nato partners are a security threat---loses this guy what was left of his cred

    https://politico.com/story/2018/03/07/steel-tariffs-trump-bush-391426

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,868 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Were those plants and all their intellectual property relocated to China? Because that's what killed our manufacturing base. Not automation.

    Automation is what is mostly responsible for the loss of high-paying factory jobs, in the United States and elsewhere - including China BTW, where BMW builds it's engines with robots. The whole point of most working class disillusionment is the loss of high-paying jobs and their replace by $10 an hour ones in distribution centers.

    Here's a video of BMW's South Carolina plant, which is 98% automated.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,857 Senior Member
    edited June 2018 #26

    @George K said:

    @MikeA said:
    Were those plants and all their intellectual property relocated to China? Because that's what killed our manufacturing base. Not automation.

    Automation is what is mostly responsible for the loss of high-paying factory jobs, in the United States and elsewhere - including China BTW, where BMW builds it's engines with robots. The whole point of most working class disillusionment is the loss of high-paying jobs and their replace by $10 an hour ones in distribution centers.

    Here's a video of BMW's South Carolina plant, which is 98% automated.

    I can't speak on this topic too much for personal reasons. I will to say that the big reason most of the high paying jobs left the automotive industry was because they moved them to the south where the people work much cheaper. That and people are living much longer, and lifetime salary's and benefits promised by the Union were breaking the big 3. Thus came the buyouts.

  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member

    Thank you George.

    I learned hear that the EPA is the devil. My, think where we would be without it? I think we will be finding out fairly soon. When there is no good water to drink the bots will have all the jobs. Wait I heard that a lab has found out how to make clean drinking water from flea heads, the minds of scientists, and the hearts of liberals. Man what a win!!!!! A smokin' great world. Maybe we can become like Puerto Rico.

    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,868 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:

    @George K said:

    @MikeA said:
    Were those plants and all their intellectual property relocated to China? Because that's what killed our manufacturing base. Not automation.

    Automation is what is mostly responsible for the loss of high-paying factory jobs, in the United States and elsewhere - including China BTW, where BMW builds it's engines with robots. The whole point of most working class disillusionment is the loss of high-paying jobs and their replace by $10 an hour ones in distribution centers.

    Here's a video of BMW's South Carolina plant, which is 98% automated.

    I can't speak on this topic too much for personal reasons. I will to say that the big reason most of the high paying jobs left the automotive industry was because they moved them to the south where the people work much cheaper. That and people are living much longer, and lifetime salary's and benefits promised by the Union were breaking the big 3. Thus came the buyouts.

    I understand your need not to get into details. But the south is no exception. When that plant opened decades ago it was 2% automated, now it is 98% automated. Perhaps BMW kept the displaced workers on, I don't know, but I suspect not. I doubt that South Carolina has all that many other factory jobs paying as well as BMW did/does.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,700 Senior Member

    Not all Auto jobs went to Mexico-----Our economies are so integrated one part may cross our borders several times in the mfg. process.
    and this fro the Unifor website

    "What the Auto Industry Means to Ontario
    Aug 6, 2015
    The Industry

    Five major automakers operate car and light truck assembly plants in Ontario: Fiat Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda and Toyota. And heavy trucks are produced by Hitachi and Hino.
    Ontario’s auto industry also comprises a highly-developed parts sector, including manufacturers’ in-house engine and transmission plants, and over 600 independent parts facilities.
    2,382,208 vehicles were built in Ontario in 2014 (or 6,527 per day), the most of any state or provincial jurisdiction in North America.
    The Ontario industry produced vehicles and parts worth $73 billion in 2014, (or $201 million per day).
    Jobs and the Economy

    The auto industry directly employs 101,000 people in Ontario, 85% of the Canadian total.
    Auto workers’ paycheques contributed $6.1 billion to the Ontario economy in 2014 (or $17 million per day).
    Thousands more jobs are created to supply the auto industry: jobs in steel, plastics and other manufacturing and services. More jobs are created by the spending power of auto workers’ paycheques.
    The major original equipment manufacturing operations in Ontario are estimated to stimulate 311,000 additional jobs throughout the economy."

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,868 Senior Member
    edited June 2018 #31

    As I recall, long before NAFTA Canada and the U.S. had a separate agreement on automobiles. For most purposes a car made in Canada was considered to have been made in the United States.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.

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