Trump vacates Iran Nuclear Deal

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Replies

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,800 Senior Member

    I didn't understand the reasoning for the deal then and I still don't.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    I didn't understand the reasoning for the deal then and I still don't.

    Which deal---NAFTA or Iran?

    And in reality with the Senate majority with Obama being Republican--he could have said the sky was blue and the grass was green---and it still wouldn't have passed

    Maybe all senators should sit as independents to get work done

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,800 Senior Member

    The Iran deal. Why make any deal with a terrorist? Why pay for hostages? Trump just schooled the last admin on how deals with terrorists should be done.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    There's a theory out there--that to move forward---it's better to be at the table than not

    Remember the US is only one part---China/Russia/Britain/France and Germany--with UN inspectors ensuring compliance

    Now there are no leadership voids in the world----One player vacates---another will take its place

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,694 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:
    Twitter boy apparently misses a key point
    doesn't matter if it's a good deal or a bad deal---it's still a deal

    Sets a bad tone about entering into future agreements if there will potentially be a flip by future admins

    You would think the Iranians were native Americans.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,694 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    The Iran deal. Why make any deal with a terrorist? Why pay for hostages? Trump just schooled the last admin on how deals with terrorists should be done.

    And how is that? Ignore them and hope they will go away?

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 21,694 Senior Member

    Why pay for hostages?

    That would have been a good question for Reagan and the current President of the NRA.

    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,601 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Why make any deal with a terrorist?

    Spoiler Alert: The ONLY way in G_d's good name we get out of Afghanistan is by sitting down and negotiating with the Taliban. It will NOT HAPPEN any other way. Whether it is done by Trump or someone else 3 years from now it is going to go down that way so start preparing yourself.

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,601 Senior Member

    @Steven said:

    @sherb said:

    Then Obama should have ratified it in Congress.

    Who?

    This is criminally underrated!

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    @fishingcomic said:

    @Bushart said:
    Twitter boy apparently misses a key point
    doesn't matter if it's a good deal or a bad deal---it's still a deal

    Sets a bad tone about entering into future agreements if there will potentially be a flip by future admins

    You would think the Iranians were native Americans.

    Youbetcha--this almost needs its own thread
    We've got a ton of issues as well----The gov makes believe they're trying tho---but basics like drinking water are absent and is compared to 3rd world

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,800 Senior Member
    edited May 11 #42

    You guys are all about social justice, and human rights, Gay rights, women's rights, freedom of religion, and anti Russia to the core. But then when it comes to a real life adversary, who violates every single ideal you hold dear, colludes with Russia, then fools you with deals they have no intention of upholding, gets caught lying about it, you rush to their aid? W T F? It's the last thing I would have expected.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    You guys are all about social justice, and human rights, Gay rights, women's rights, freedom of religion, and anti Russia to the core. But then when it comes to a real life adversary, who violates every single ideal you hold dear, colludes with Russia, then fools you with deals they have no intention of upholding, gets caught lying about it, you rush to their aid? W T F? It's the last thing I would have expected.

    R U talking NK here cuz your description fits there as well?

    And "AGAIN"--don't think anyone is defending Iran---but it's better to be part of the solution than absent with a problem

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,800 Senior Member
    edited May 11 #44

    Did Trump send NK billions to get our hostages back and encourage them to negotiate denuclearization? I didn't think so.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    Did Trump send NK billions to get our hostages back and encourage them to negotiate denuclearization? I didn't think so.

    Actually other than the 3 guys getting to go home---nothing is finalized with NK
    and Iran colluding with Russia---yes but if your hitting one hit em all
    Don jr "worked" with the Russians in the last campaign by his own admission to get Hillary dirt
    This is ok then?

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    And research reveals--sending $$$$ to Iran was Un-freezing Iranian bank accounts---which were held under world sanctions

    Sanctions did work---that's what brought them to the table---160 Billion in lost oil revenues---crippling their economy--so now they wanna play nice--and halt nuclear development---may be a good idea?

    Unless of course your an oil producing nation and have an interest in Iran not selling on world markets?

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,808 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    I didn't understand the reasoning for the deal then and I still don't.

    It delays Iran pursuing development of a bomb for at least a decade, probably longer.
    Because of inspections, we are able to get better intelligence on what they were doing with the deal than without it.
    It bolsters moderates within Iran, tempering the crazies somewhat.
    It triples the "breakout point" for weapons grade production, giving whomever wanted to take action to prevent Iran from making a bomb more time for discovery, planning and action.
    It was the least bad deal available at the time and way better than no deal at all.

    The main rationale for reneging seems to be that it was done while Obama was in power, and that it plays well to Trump's "base", who - in Dubya's words - "don't do nuance".

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,800 Senior Member
    edited May 11 #48

    That's the theory George.
    Here's the reality.
    http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/08/trump-was-right-to-blow-up-the-iran-deal-heres-why/

    This is not to say it can't be renegotiated with better terms. .

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    That's the theory George.
    Here's the reality.
    http://thefederalist.com/2018/05/08/trump-was-right-to-blow-up-the-iran-deal-heres-why/

    This is not to say it can't be renegotiated with better terms. .

    I stopped reading this after the 1st sentence

    "Like most of Barack Obama’s legacy, the Iran Deal was brittle and unsustainable because it was undertaken unilaterally."

    So no good to strike a deal unilaterally---but ok to scrap an established deal with other world leaders unilaterally

    Check...got it
    makes perfect sense

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,808 Senior Member

    That screed you posted ignores reality. He's complaining that an ideal arrangement was not made, ignoring that the best possible arrange at the time was negotiated.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    One can only determine is these other world leaders are naive and stupid and Trump is the only smart one

    Like Macron said a week ago---If trump pulls out of the deal---it will be for domestic political reasons

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,270 Senior Member
    edited May 11 #52

    So, let me get this straight...

    Would it have been OK had we remained in the deal and then levied new sanctions (same as the old ones) against Iran for all the other evil s-h-i-t it does?

    If that's the case, then what the heck difference does it make?

    Edit to add: Or did the deal preclude us from addressing anything else? 'Cuz if it did, f-u-c-k that.

  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,800 Senior Member

    Bottom line Steven. Trump made the decision, and he's not Obama. Therefore, it's evil, and stupid. And anyone who thinks otherwise is also evil and stupid.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    Sanctions were lifted to halt a nuclear program---direct and specific

    Many countries are guilty of evil s-h-i-t ---where are their sanctions?

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,270 Senior Member

    @Bushart said:
    Sanctions were lifted to halt a nuclear program---direct and specific

    Many countries are guilty of evil s-h-i-t ---where are their sanctions?

    Putin and his pals just stopped by to say hello.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,270 Senior Member

    Here's what I'm thinking...if we put sanctions on Iran for the s-h-i-t it pulls in Iraq, Lebanon or Syria, they'd just say we're violating the nuclear treaty and go on their merry way.

    That shouldn't work for anybody with a semblance of sense. Good for Trump. Merkel, Macron and May should completely have his back.

  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 8,808 Senior Member

    This also sends a message to North Korea about our willingness to honor commitments. But of course some posters only see this and other issues in the stark black and white of "Trump, love him or hate him".

    I'm still waiting for an explanation of how abrogating our participation in the agreement advances our national security interests, rather than Russia's, China's and, perhaps Bibi's if not Israel's.

    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 2,800 Senior Member

    Sanctions. That’s how.

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,270 Senior Member

    Clearly, an ascendant Iran (as it is today) is not in our best interests. The agreement does not preclude this.

    Whether ripping it up and demanding an agreement that does address both these and nuclear concerns, is the right move remains to be seen.

  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,793 Senior Member

    Iran is still waiting to see if the other countries are committed---which appears to be the case

    Obviously Macron, Merkel and May walk the walk on agreements---and do not care if Trump nation or Bibi is happy now that they walked away

    They are more interested in advancing peace in ME

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,601 Senior Member

    @MikeA said:
    But then when it comes to a real life adversary, who violates every single ideal you hold dear, colludes with Russia, then fools you with deals they have no intention of upholding, gets caught lying about it, you rush to their aid?

    Throw in building a lavish lifestyle via money laundering for Russian oligarchs and you have a pretty good description of the Trump Crime Syndicate.

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