No discussion of the school shooting in Florida?

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Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,522 Senior Member
    PM inbound.
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,693 Senior Member
    I know full well, having owned an AR 15 Commando (selector switch, short barrel, folding wire stock) back in Viet Nam in 1967, which I got by trading cases of Cs and a few $$$, to carry instead of my Army-issued M14 (I was in the artillery). I got away with that by promising to sell it to the officer I reported to upon rotation. Cases of Cs were the universal trading currency when I was there in 1966-67. My battalion's supply battery capt. obtained jeeps, many skids of Cs and bokoo (GI spelling) lumber stolen from other units that had not yet arrived in country, using forged papers and trucks with false unit IDs painted on the bumpers. Our colonel at Long Binh had a hooch three times his authorized size.

    These days our rifle collection consists of a Ruger .22 I bought in 1976 and my wife's octagonal barrel pump .22 inherited from her father. The well-scoped Ruger is all I need to control the ground hog population on our property.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,585 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    The well-scoped Ruger is all I need to control the ground hog population on our property.

    How many weeks of winter are left when Punxsutawny Phil sees his life flash before his eyes?
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    How many weeks of winter are left when Punxsutawny Phil sees his life flash before his eyes?

    Western PA in a nutshell:
  • magallowaymagalloway Senior Member Posts: 982 Senior Member
    Carried a M16A1 '68-69 and detested the sucker. The stuff on the market these days is even butt-uglier; if you MUST carry a thing-killer, at least carry one with a little style.

    Jim
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    Poor parenting and family breakdown. It's a societal problem.

    Recognition of where the need for violence was conceived and nurtured needs to be talked about first.

    Poor parenting? Like letting your son own an AR-15?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    It only looks that way. In reality, crises like this tend to ramp up both NRA memberships and Gun and ammo sales. For every backlash against the NRA, there's a backlash against the backlash.

    You know who doesn't want new gun legislation? Democrats. It will jeopardize their chances of retaking the house.

    How much you want to bet it will not be Democrats that will kill any likely bill?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 2,920 Senior Member
    Has this aspect of the sad story been discussed?

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48853.htm

    U.S. Military Trained Florida School Shooter to Be “A Very Good Shot”

    By Amy Goodman

    The Florida gunman, a 19-year-old white former student named Nikolas Cruz, was a member of the Army Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps program before he was expelled from the school. Cruz was also part of a four-person JROTC marksmanship team at the school which had received $10,000 in funding from the NRA. For more, we speak with Pat Elder, director of the National Coalition to Protect Student Privacy, an organization that confronts militarism in schools. He’s the author of “Military Recruiting in the United States.”

    AMY GOODMAN: So, you have Nikolas Cruz, the confessed gunman. He’s part of the ROTC program, supported by the NRA, at this school, even as the school has these complaints of harassment and abuse, and ultimately expel him. Can you—he’s wearing a JROTC T-shirt when he opens fire on his classmates.

    PAT ELDER: Well, apparently he wanted to convey to the world that he was affiliated with the JROTC program. Amy, it’s an insidious practice. We have the United States Army and the other three branches in the high schools putting lethal weapons into the hands of 13- and 14-year-olds.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,522 Senior Member
    So now Coral Springs PD officers are reporting that when they rolled up, an additional 3 Broward County Sheriff's Deputies were in a position of cover behind their squad cars.

    Sherb, I think you're right not to trust the Sheriff.

    Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    And there's more. the call detail logs on the SO's contacts with the shooter are very damning.

    Lets assume the Sheriff is right, that his SRO acted dishonorably. Let's further assume that he will follow suit by throwing these other three to the wolves. Isn't it time for HIM to act honorably, and resign?

    **** rolls downhill, always has. But leadership begins at the top.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    How much you want to bet it will not be Democrats that will kill any likely bill?

    No, of course not. But they will be thanking God when the GOP kills it, all the while loudly denouncing it. This is trouble they don't need, especially when they have a massive 18 point generic lead at this point.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    Unfortunately, as much as I don't want to say this, I have to say it. I don't like this sheriff, but I am going to give him his due right now.

    law enforcement deals with so much white noise. So many threats that don't pan out, so many "he's gonna kill me" that never amount to anything. It can be so, so difficult to ferret out the legitimate crazies from the loudmouths and the drama queens. And everyone knows it. . .right up to the minute the bomb goes off. Then in hindsight its all crystal-clear. But its never clear as its happening.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 2,942 Senior Member
    Poor parenting? Like letting your son own an AR-15?

    Mine had a Mini-14 before an AR-15. The difference is?
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie just look at the flowers.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    No, of course not. But they will be thanking God when the GOP kills it, all the while loudly denouncing it. This is trouble they don't need, especially when they have a massive 18 point generic lead at this point.

    Of interest

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/us/politics/nra-gun-control-florida.html#click=https://t.co/BUjCRS0qHY
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,427 Senior Member
    Curious as to why then Rubio did not just tell the kid that he does not accept direct NRA contributions?? as per the article claims
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    So now Coral Springs PD officers are reporting that when they rolled up, an additional 3 Broward County Sheriff's Deputies were in a position of cover behind their squad cars.

    Sherb, I think you're right not to trust the Sheriff.

    Apparently the Coral Springs cops are super-pissed.

    I think this Sheriff is in big trouble. I can see one cop freezing. Maybe (unlikely, but maybe) two. But four? No. freaking. way.

    Someone told them to hold in place.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,522 Senior Member
    A Broward SO did enter with the Coral Springs cops, but... yeah.

    The high sheriff should step down, if nothing other than poor leadership. But it seems his officers were told to hold in place. If he made the call, it's a bad call. If it was someone else in his department, then he's not running a good department. I'm not a cop, but from what I've read the national standard is to enter on arrival at something like this.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,522 Senior Member
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

    Evidently Coral Springs PD reported this to the city manager on Feb. 15.

    Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    I know a lot of cops. And I've investigated a lot of officer involved shootings.

    They **** and moan and email my boss when they don't like deals that are cut or declines on their cases. They can be real pains in the ****, truth be told.

    But they are not cowards. They know what it means to strap on that gun and go out there and deal with drunk, high, angry, crazy people. There's just no way four sworn law enforcement officers made a collective decision to sit this one out. Peer pressure alone would have forced their hand. They were told to wait. They had to have been.

    And yes Bream, you are correct, the protocol is get in there NOW. I find it difficult to believe an agency with 6,000 employees does not have ongoing active shooter training.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    This latest revelation is a classic case of confirmation bias: Liberals point out, hey a good guy with a gun didn't stop the shooter and you want to arm teachers to do the same? Conservatives, say, a good guy with a gun didn't stop the shooter, but maybe a teacher inside the building could have. Its very telling.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,522 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I know a lot of cops. And I've investigated a lot of officer involved shootings.

    They **** and moan and email my boss when they don't like deals that are cut or declines on their cases. They can be real pains in the ****, truth be told.

    But they are not cowards. They know what it means to strap on that gun and go out there and deal with drunk, high, angry, crazy people. There's just no way four sworn law enforcement officers made a collective decision to sit this one out. Peer pressure alone would have forced their hand. They were told to wait. They had to have been.

    And yes Bream, you are correct, the protocol is get in there NOW. I find it difficult to believe an agency with 6,000 employees does not have ongoing active shooter training.

    So why were they told to wait? I'm not asking you, specifically, but I have to wonder....
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,427 Senior Member
    It is only my opinion here

    I believe the more civilized ---do-able --thing to do here is "build that wall".......aka locked gates to get into the school---if you want put a guard at the gate?

    Can't get in---not gonna shoot anyone----therefore no worries about arming teachers (which I think is a bad idea)---likely cheaper in the long run----and less mistakes---or "Friendly fire"

    Trump's pushing this to appease LaPierre---proving his good guy bad guy gun thing
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,522 Senior Member
    Not necessarily do-able because... cost. Folks won't want to pay the money in taxes, or others will say the money could be better spend for other school uses.

    I personally feel that making schools harder to get into is a great idea. But I lack the faith that our taxpayers or others concerned actually have the political will do do it. There are folks who have proposed this over the years, and it's been shot down because... cost. Some people also don't like the aesthetics of such a thing, and think it'll make schools like prisons.

    OTOH, if children truly are precious, shouldn't we guard them like a precious asset? But it costs too much. And it looks ugly.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,176 Senior Member
    This idea was discussed at one of the parent/school officer meetings at my kids school a couple of year ago. The sheriffs office was not a big fan. Said yes, it can keep people out...but it can also keep people in. He said if you go down to a single point entry you have a funnel and that can cause huge issues for fire escape, or other emergencies, or worse, you can create a kill box that will be much worse.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Unfortunately, as much as I don't want to say this, I have to say it. I don't like this sheriff, but I am going to give him his due right now.

    law enforcement deals with so much white noise. So many threats that don't pan out, so many "he's gonna kill me" that never amount to anything. It can be so, so difficult to ferret out the legitimate crazies from the loudmouths and the drama queens. And everyone knows it. . .right up to the minute the bomb goes off. Then in hindsight its all crystal-clear. But its never clear as its happening.

    Good point. I have stayed out of the discussion of the officer that did not enter the building also because, I don't know if I would have done a better job.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,427 Senior Member
    Yeah those same adults likely live in "Gated Communities"

    Arming and continually training armed personnel infinitely will cost as well---walls last a long time

    Hey I get it---optics are bad----not really daisy fields we grew up in----but these are the realities of what has been created
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    This idea was discussed at one of the parent/school officer meetings at my kids school a couple of year ago. The sheriffs office was not a big fan. Said yes, it can keep people out...but it can also keep people in. He said if you go down to a single point entry you have a funnel and that can cause huge issues for fire escape, or other emergencies, or worse, you can create a kill box that will be much worse.

    Not so, you can have doors that will only work when exiting the building. Have had them for years.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,522 Senior Member
    You can put in one-way exit gates. They can cost.

    Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,427 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    This idea was discussed at one of the parent/school officer meetings at my kids school a couple of year ago. The sheriffs office was not a big fan. Said yes, it can keep people out...but it can also keep people in. He said if you go down to a single point entry you have a funnel and that can cause huge issues for fire escape, or other emergencies, or worse, you can create a kill box that will be much worse.

    Engineering is a wonderful thing---think the sheriff wasn't looking big picture

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