ACLU WI files a lawsuit...

NZ Indicator

http://aclu-wi.org/story/update-lincoln-hills-lawsuit

And then this is what happens...

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/10/17/woman-beaten-teen-inmate-blames-scott-walker-administration-injunction-unsafe-conditions/772354001/

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2017/10/24/five-workers-sent-hospital-amid-chaos-churns-lincoln-hills-teen-prison/793299001/

fishingcomic

I bet you think the warden is the hero in Cool Hand Luke.

tim_s

sounds like the place was poorly run before, and is still poorly run


would love to know if the kid that knocked her out was confined to this place BEFORE the rule change, and was previously subject to the solitary and pepper spray, etc

NZ Indicator

One of my best fishing friends used to work there as a guard. He just retired last year. He told me kids would **** in their hands and then throw it at the workers. They would also attack the workers but incidents like this never happened because they used to be armed with pepper spray etc. The place wasn't poorly run.

The workers there should be armed with pepper spray, mace etc. in my opinion.

The reality is the kids that are there...the next stop for them is federal prison. They are all nothing more than repeat offenders. The place should be run like a prison.

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creekguy

strong arm tactics might keep the staff safer, but at the expense of the point of the place, rehabilitating the teens. Does solitary confinement and rough treatment help that in an angry teen? Put another way, what is the likely future cost to society these programs create when the kids are released?

NZ Indicator

Like I said. These kids are repeat offenders. When they are released their next stop is federal prison.

They aren't there cuz they are angels...

The ACLU ruling now made it a dangerous place to work.

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MikeA

tim_s wrote: »

sounds like the place was poorly run before, and is still poorly run


would love to know if the kid that knocked her out was confined to this place BEFORE the rule change, and was previously subject to the solitary and pepper spray, etc

Meaning that maybe she got what she deserved?

MikeA

creekguy wrote: »

strong arm tactics might keep the staff safer, but at the expense of the point of the place, rehabilitating the teens. Does solitary confinement and rough treatment help that in an angry teen? Put another way, what is the likely future cost to society these programs create when the kids are released?

More kids just like them because we have a system that awards and encourages fatherless and absentee parents.

Shawn C.

Sometimes I wish I had kids. I would raise them right by using pepper spray on them when they didn't make their beds or do their chores.

Shawn C.

NZ Indicator wrote: »

The workers there should be armed with pepper spray, mace etc. in my opinion.

Perhaps they still would be if they hadn't overused it in the past.

Shawn C.

NZ Indicator wrote: »

The ACLU ruling now made it a dangerous place to work.

ACLU doesn't have the power to do that. The district judge is the one who handed down the injunction.

Also, if the employees now feel they are in an in-safe work environment why don't they get another job? Nanny state can't keep everyone safe. These employees should man up and find a new job. #PersonalResponsibility

NZ Indicator

Shawn C. wrote: »

ACLU doesn't have the power to do that. The district judge is the one who handed down the injunction.

The ACLU filed the lawsuit and started the process.

Also, if the employees now feel they are in an in-safe work environment why don't they get another job? Nanny state can't keep everyone safe. These employees should man up and find a new job. #PersonalResponsibility

Maybe you should go work there without having the proper tools to control these angry youths. Then you too can end up in the hospital.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2017/10/24/five-workers-sent-hospital-amid-chaos-churns-lincoln-hills-teen-prison/793299001/


This isn't summer camp my friend. Or a case of slightly misguided youth. These are repeat offender hardened criminals destined for federal prison when they make it out.

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fishingcomic

NZ Indicator wrote: »

One of my best fishing friends used to work there as a guard. He just retired last year. He told me kids would **** in their hands and then throw it at the workers. They would also attack the workers but incidents like this never happened because they used to be armed with pepper spray etc. The place wasn't poorly run.

Boy it sounds like that solitary confinement was an effective tool and was in no way psychologically damaging to those kids. Kudos my friend, kudos.

NZ Indicator

fishingcomic wrote: »

Boy it sounds like that solitary confinement was an effective tool and was in no way psychologically damaging to those kids. Kudos my friend, kudos.

Very effective tool in protecting the workers from being beaten by the kids and sent to the hospital. Now the staff is no longer safe. They have been stripped of their handcuffs, pepper spray and solitary confinement tools. The inmates are running the place cuz they now know the workers don't have the tools to control them.

Not sure why anyone is defending these punk criminals. They are in there for a reason. Not some petty crimes like stealing a pack of gum from Walmart.

fishingcomic

I know it is difficult for you to take in new information, but those kids just become more violent when they are placed in isolation. It is psychologically damaging. But hey they misbehaved so they deserve it in your opinion I guess.

NZ Indicator

Lol. Those kids are already violent when they get there. The place didn't make them more violent. They are already serious teen offenders. The ruling by the judge in this case gave the criminals the upper hand.

http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/2017/10/legislatures-ask-for-action-following-assault-of-five-inmates

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2017-10-26/juvenile-inmates-reached-prison-roof-threw-items-at-guards

Shawn C.

NZ Indicator wrote: »

The ACLU filed the lawsuit and started the process.



Maybe you should go work there...

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Yeah, no thanks.

Once again, I would wager that they would not have had their pepper spray taken away if they had not been over-using it. Just my hypothesis. I really think they should be able to protect themselves but I wonder if they didn't show restraint in using it before.

Solitary confinement is torture, pure and simple. One of these years we as a country will come to our senses and get rid of it.

fishingcomic

NZ Indicator wrote: »

Lol. Those kids are already violent when they get there. The place didn't make them more violent. They are already serious teen offenders. The ruling by the judge in this case gave the criminals the upper hand.

http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/2017/10/legislatures-ask-for-action-following-assault-of-five-inmates

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2017-10-26/juvenile-inmates-reached-prison-roof-threw-items-at-guards

I had a poster of Farrah Fawcett on my wall when I was teenager. Was yours Nurse Ratchet?

NZ Indicator

Shawn C. wrote: »

Yeah, no thanks.

Once again, I would wager that they would not have had their pepper spray taken away if they had not been over-using it. Just my hypothesis. I really think they should be able to protect themselves but I wonder if they didn't show restraint in using it before.

Solitary confinement is torture, pure and simple. One of these years we as a country will come to our senses and get rid of it.

They weren't over using it. It's one of the tools they need to control the kids.

This place is in my backyard. Having a friend's and family that have worked there I have a pretty good insight to what's going on.

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NZ Indicator

fishingcomic wrote: »

I had a poster of Farrah Fawcett on my wall when I was teenager. Was yours Nurse Ratchet?

Heather Locklear fercripesakes!

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tim_s

NZ Indicator wrote: »

They weren't over using it. It's one of the tools they need to control the kids.

This place is in my backyard. Having a friend's and family that have worked there I have a pretty good insight to what's going on.

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seems a federal judge disagrees with you



funny how adult prisons can stay safe without overuse of solitary and pepper spray.....

inmates pepper sprayed while shackled? yeah, that's overuse....


I'll stand by poorly run.......if the inmates are so dangerous, why was the teacher in a class with them alone? does that sound well run?


all but our adult supertax don't even come close to the sort of conditions they were describing here (23 hour lockdown/solitary/cuffed to tables, etc when out) (and even some of the supertax don't go that far).......yet those places are run more safely

weird


and yes, the reason I asked if the attacker was an inmate here before the changes is because that much solitary and lock down WILL compound the situation and make the inmate more violent......the conditions described before the ruling produce the exact behaviors described after

fishingcomic

I am beginning to think that conservatives have a torture fetish.

This is what I am imagining NZ is like on a date.

NZ Indicator

tim_s wrote: »

seems a federal judge disagrees with you



funny how adult prisons can stay safe without overuse of solitary and pepper spray.....

inmates pepper sprayed while shackled? yeah, that's overuse....


I'll stand by poorly run.......if the inmates are so dangerous, why was the teacher in a class with them alone? does that sound well run?


all but our adult supertax don't even come close to the sort of conditions they were describing here (23 hour lockdown/solitary/cuffed to tables, etc when out) (and even some of the supertax don't go that far).......yet those places are run more safely

weird


and yes, the reason I asked if the attacker was an inmate here before the changes is because that much solitary and lock down WILL compound the situation and make the inmate more violent......the conditions described before the ruling produce the exact behaviors described after

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/pennsylvania/mc-pa-prison-guards-pepper-spray-20150312-story.html

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George K

NZ Indicator wrote: »

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/pennsylvania/mc-pa-prison-guards-pepper-spray-20150312-story.html

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As usual, you miss the point. The issue isn't pepper spray, solitary confinement or other things used in prisons, it is that they were used irresponsibly.

NZ Indicator

Except they aren't being used irresponsibly at this place.

Fercripesakes people...These are criminal punks destined for prison once they get out of there. This isn't a summer youth camp.

Remember there are 2 sides to every story....

fishingcomic

Clearly you know more than a judge who has been dealing with criminals his entire career.

CO Native

I just find it a shame that all these fine upstanding kids are even in a detention center. They should be free and out working on that trade of stealing cars and selling heroin.

NZ Indicator

CO Native wrote: »

I just find it a shame that all these fine upstanding kids are even in a detention center. They should be free and out working on that trade of stealing cars and selling heroin.

They will be once they get out of there.

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creekguy

There has always (till now) been a Judeochristian ethic in our country that it is worth trying to salvage lost souls, even if it looks unlikely. Its interesting to see the so-called conservatives asking for final judgment so early in these peoples lives. Either way, NZ, you either give them a life sentence for youthful crimes, or let them out at some point. I fear for anyone near those who have been treated in the ways you prefer.

ricinus

creekguy wrote: »

There has always (till now) been a Judeochristian ethic in our country that it is worth trying to salvage lost souls, even if it looks unlikely. Its interesting to see the so-called conservatives asking for final judgment so early in these peoples lives. Either way, NZ, you either give them a life sentence for youthful crimes, or let them out at some point. I fear for anyone near those who have been treated in the ways you prefer.

Nicely put..

Mike