Honest question

245

Replies

  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member
    Oh, I know we're an irrational species.

    I think that the rise of hate groups and Naziism shows also the futility in "fighting" an ideology. Ideologies are not defeated on the physical battlefield.

    Just to keep things in perspective, the KKK at it height numbered in the millions. Alt-right membership is at most 100,000.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,633 Senior Member
    Would you all support removing all the monuments that are offensive to anyone? Mt Rushmore, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, just to name a few?
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member
    It's not a question of a monument being offensive to anyone. It's a question of a monument being built to commemorate the offensive actions.

    The Roman Coliseum was built by slaves, but it wasn't built to honor slavery.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    Would you all support removing all the monuments that are offensive to anyone? Mt Rushmore, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, just to name a few?

    Might as well keep burying history. Just because someone, someplace is offended.

    All the offensive stuff will be removed from society and it will all be rainbows and unicorns from here on out.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,521 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Just to keep things in perspective, the KKK at it height numbered in the millions. Alt-right membership is at most 100,000.
    How do you figured the numbers on alt-right membership? I don't doubt that it's lower than the Klan's membership at its peak, I just wonder how that sort of number is generated....
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,633 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    It's not a question of a monument being offensive to anyone. It's a question of a monument being built to commemorate the offensive actions.

    The Roman Coliseum was built by slaves, but it wasn't built to honor slavery.

    We'll see Steven. When you let the mob decide what's right and whats wrong you get what you get. Chaos.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member
    How do you figured the numbers on alt-right membership? I don't doubt that it's lower than the Klan's membership at its peak, I just wonder how that sort of number is generated....

    I can't find where I saw this (it was some place reputable though). It was based off of current Klan membership divided by outposts, with the number per outpost applied to other groups.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,521 Senior Member
    Okay, gotcha, thanks.


    And in related news, turns out FL is second only to CA in number of hate groups....

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article167229392.html
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,557 Senior Member
    It's probably not a huge number, but they've been emboldened by the administration's tepid response.

    I don't believe that Trump is personally an anti Semite, but it's clear that the alt-right thinks he is with them. They were so excited yesterday
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 912 Senior Member
    Might as well keep burying history. Just because someone, someplace is offended.

    All the offensive stuff will be removed from society and it will all be rainbows and unicorns from here on out.

    That is a bogus thing to say, and comes from a position of white privilege.

    Put yourself in these shoes: Your early ancestors were slaves, and then your more recent ancestors were lynched, prevented from voting, made to ride in the back of the bus, etc. During the period when your non-slave ancestors were lynched, etc., statutes of the leaders of the movement to keep your earlier ancestors slaves are erected in your home town. Progress is made in terms of treating you and others like you with more equality, but there are still people who want to make you and others like you ride in the back of the bus again. They carry the flag of the movement that tried to keep your ancestors slaves. You see the statutes of the leaders of that movement everyday. If you say those statutes wouldn't bother you I won't believe you.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I don't believe that Trump is personally an anti Semite, but it's clear that the alt-right thinks he is with them. They were so excited yesterday

    I doubt it as well. He personally just has no morals.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member
    That is a bogus thing to say, and comes from a position of white privilege

    No.
    Put yourself in these shoes: Your early ancestors were slaves, and then your more recent ancestors were lynched, prevented from voting, made to ride in the back of the bus, etc. During the period when your non-slave ancestors were lynched, etc., statutes of the leaders of the movement to keep your earlier ancestors slaves are erected in your home town. Progress is made in terms of treating you and other like you with more equality, but there are still people who want to make you and others like you ride in the back of the bus again. They carry the flag of the movement that tried to keep your ancestors slaves. You see the statutes of the leaders of that movement everyday. If you say those statutes wouldn't bother you I won't believe you.

    That goes back to my statement earlier of people living in the past making it harder for society to move forward. There isn't a white person alive today that owns slaves and there aren't any black people alive today that are slaves. Do we need to remove all civil war monuments? What else should we destroy of our countries history to protect the feelings of its people in the name of politcial correctness? Are the Gettysburg memorials next on the list? What else after that? When does it stop?

    I can't even watch Dukes of Hazzard re-runs anymore fercripesaks because someone is offended by a confederate flag on the roof of a Dodge Charger!! :D
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    How far back is the past? There are people living today that have witnessed their relatives lynched in public squares that still have to fight everyday to prevent their voting rights from being taken from them. Black churches are still being burned and White Nationalists are killing people right now.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Those who demand that confederate era monuments be taken down.

    No one cared for many years but now they all of sudden do? Just another case of PC gone wild again and people living in the past.

    Do we keep burying history just because someone might be offended in this day and age?



    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    Nope, the black Americans that those statues were meant to terrorize have always cared.

    As Bream noted, we do not erect statues of Adolf **** and Mussolini.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Just to keep things in perspective, the KKK at it height numbered in the millions. Alt-right membership is at most 100,000.

    In 1936 the **** were a fringe organization.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    Would you all support removing all the monuments that are offensive to anyone? Mt Rushmore, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, just to name a few?

    None of those killed millions of Americans to perpetuate slavery and to destroy the Republic.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,521 Senior Member
    Nope, the black Americans that those statues were meant to terrorize have always cared.

    As Bream noted, we do not erect statues of Adolf **** and Mussolini.
    That weren't me. I kinda wish it was, but it's not me. It was Steven.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Look I already gave Steven credit once today. What are you trying to do to me? =D
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,521 Senior Member
    I'd rather not take credit for things I didn't do.

    I'm not orange and don't have a comb-over-and-around
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,209 Senior Member
    Will these statues be sold at auction? I need to expand my collection.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,633 Senior Member
    None of those killed millions of Americans to perpetuate slavery and to destroy the Republic.

    I didn't say they did, but many of them are equally offensive to some Americans, especially Japanese and Native Americans.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,941 Senior Member
    Next up...A book burning party. Need to remove them all from circulation so as not to offend someone.

    https://www.amazon.com/Confederacy-Civil-War-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=465236

    Buffco...You need to change your profile picture. You are offending someone out there in Lodge land.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    okay now we have reached a new level of stupid. Nobody is saying we remove history, just that we stop celebrating the traitors that created it.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    I didn't say they did, but many of them are equally offensive to some Americans, especially Japanese and Native Americans.

    Well when someone wants to erect a statue to Custer we can discuss it. But you want to celebrate treasonous criminals all so you can terrorize African-Americans.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,633 Senior Member
    Well when someone wants to erect a statue to Custer we can discuss it. But you want to celebrate treasonous criminals all so you can terrorize African-Americans.
    Well, there are several Custer Monuments.

    Custer%20statue%20A.jpg
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    They should come down as well. He was an ethnic cleanser.

    We should always look to our past and think critically of who we celebrate as heroes. And maybe we should decide those that would subjugate and destroy a race should not be on that list.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,426 Senior Member
    They should come down as well. He was an ethnic cleanser.

    We should always look to our past and think critically of who we celebrate as heroes. And maybe we should take those that would subjugate and destroy a race should not be on that list.

    Nah leave it there

    Not to celebrate it but A good reminder that at times you pay for your actions

    If you remove it---the conversation may soon get lost----some kid may not then ask his parents who Custer was---then you can give them a history lesson----about another dark time----and hopefully a road never traveled again

    Those that ignore the mistakes of history are bound to repeat them
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,559 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Nah leave it there

    Not to celebrate it but A good reminder that at times you pay for your actions

    If you remove it---the conversation may soon get lost----some kid may not then ask his parents who Custer was---then you can give them a history lesson----about another dark time----and hopefully a road never traveled again

    Those that ignore the mistakes of history are bound to repeat them

    I am not interested in getting involved with Lodge topics of this sort, but...
    excellent take... and mine as well. Well Done.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Bushart wrote: »
    Nah leave it there

    Not to celebrate it but A good reminder that at times you pay for your actions

    If you remove it---the conversation may soon get lost----some kid may not then ask his parents who Custer was---then you can give them a history lesson----about another dark time----and hopefully a road never traveled again

    Those that ignore the mistakes of history are bound to repeat them

    A heroic statue of a murderer on a horse is a celebration plain and simple. Unless of course you place a plaque talking about what a murdering monster he was, then I guess that is a compromise.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,559 Senior Member
    You wanna talk about monsters... Paul Bunyan! We must tear down all Paul Bunyan statues immediately.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.

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