How Utah is keeping the American Dream alive

sherbsherb Senior MemberPosts: 2,628 Senior Member
Long, but worth a look.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-28/how-utah-keeps-the-american-dream-alive

Cliffs:

A vast private charity network which encourages giving but also incentivizes work.
getting and staying married.
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Replies

  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    Counterpoint: **** this place.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 9,842 Senior Member
    You are an enigmatic Mormon, I'll say that.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    I don't even know where to go with that...

    Screw you, I guess? I'm jut not sure any more. ;)
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 9,842 Senior Member
    You just go against everything your church represents. It's almost like you aren't a Mormon at all.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    Almost, eh?
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 9,842 Senior Member
    Yeah but we all know that's not true. Look, we all struggle in our faith. It's ok. Just go get another wife.

    Where is jbilly? Is he on Facebook?
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    I've been wondering about him as well.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Long, but worth a look.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-28/how-utah-keeps-the-american-dream-alive

    Cliffs:

    A vast private charity network which encourages giving but also incentivizes work.
    getting and staying married.

    From the article:
    Many charity operations offer a food pantry or a thrift shop. Few of them can boast, in addition, their own bakery, dairy operation and canning facilities, all staffed by volunteers. The food pantry itself looks like a well-run grocery store, except that it runs not on money, but on “Bishop’s Orders” spelling out an individualized list of food items authorized by the bishop handling each case. This grows out of two features of Mormon life: the practice of storing large amounts of food against emergencies (as well as giving food away, the church sells it to people for their home storage caches), and an unrivaled system of highly organized community volunteer work.

    Ugh... The author got taken for a ride. Bigly. Charity network, my ****. They use the parishioners as slave labor and then sell the goods they produce for tax-free profits. Its tantamount to volunteering at gun point. If you are a pious LDS member you must do these things to ensure you get a good planet (yeah, look that up people) in the celestial kingdom. If you aren't pious, you risk losing your friends, family and social network by being shunned.
    How did Utah manage, then? Well, one viable theory is “it’s Mormon.” Churches form a sort of leveling community. No matter what we do outside, we’re all equal before God.

    Holy gullible, Batman! Why is it that when people get their 'callings' the rich guys get to take on positions of prestige and decision making while someone lower on the socio-economic ladder miraculously gets called to be the ward house janitor. Why does the rich guy never get picked by god to clean the ****?

    I do agree that marriage builds strong communities and provides upward mobility through stability. It is too bad that so many marriages in our nation end in divorce.

    Look, they have some good ideas! The food storage thing is really pragmatic. The small government here must be doing something right because unemployment is so low. Also, the church/culture does foster in people a willingness to succeed. These people are hard working and driven by The American Dream. Capitalist dreams of success seems to be interwoven in the fabric here. These are good things that a lot of the rest of the nation seems to have forgotten.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,800 Senior Member
    Ummmm...this may not be the place in a thread...but

    I hear Zimbabwe is selling elephants----I think I'm buying one

    Can I keep it at your place Shawn?......You can be king of the Mormons---I'll let ya drive him downtown---you can buy a big hat---Lots of room for wives---Hindu's think your cool---win--win

    You can chain him to your driveway to scare away the symbolic republicans after you put the sign--"feel the Bern" on his back---oh the irony

    Pull him up to the coffee shop drive-thru
    You are now a Utah chick magnet----no need to thank me
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    I'll take two.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,109 Senior Member
    BTW if anyone does not believe that Utah has a serious issue with homelessness, I invite them to go to Pioneer Park. They also have a big NIMBY problem here.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,109 Senior Member
    I love how she compares Utah to North Carolina, two states with the exact same governing philosophy. She might also note that most of the people that are upwardly mobile here, were not born here. There is a huge growth in the IT sector and those people are coming here from elsewhere.

    I will say this. Prominent Utah families, like the Millers who own the Jazz as well as a vast auto dealership empire that extends all the way to California, do give a great deal to charity.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    BTW if anyone does not believe that Utah has a serious issue with homelessness, I invite them to go to Pioneer Park. They also have a big NIMBY problem here.

    Yes. I had issue with that as well. It is a big homeless population here in SLC and Ogden.

    Another point about the strong economy is, as you pointed out, the growth. This place is still growing like a weed. It would be impossible to screw that up if you are Utah's government. It's not all good though. And I'm not only referencing the seriously negative environmental effects. We'll maybe have that conversation when we go fishing next.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,514 Senior Member
    Why so bitter Shawn? Utah sounds great!!

    I hope to visit there soon someday. I have a good friend here in WI that owns a condo in SLC and I get an invite to go there every year for some biking and fishing. I just haven't been able to find the time to take him up on the offer yet.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,109 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Yes. I had issue with that as well. It is a big homeless population here in SLC and Ogden.

    Another point about the strong economy is, as you pointed out, the growth. This place is still growing like a weed. It would be impossible to screw that up if you are Utah's government. It's not all good though. And I'm not only referencing the seriously negative environmental effects. We'll maybe have that conversation when we go fishing next.

    The other nice thing is we do not have to deal with the problems of the rust belt. We do not have crumbling infrastructure. Thanks to all that growth, everything is brand spanking new. A lot of the growth does have to do with the fact that commercial real estate is a lot cheaper than traditional IT centers.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    Joe, for outdoor recreation this place is great. Best skiing in the world (not hyperbole), really good fishing, mountain biking Mecca. You name it, it's here. Fantastic weather too. Hey, I'm still here so I obviously dig being so close to the mountains.
    In short, it's the people. And not just the mormon ****. The people here just suck. Perhaps I'll delve deeper into it later but that's it in a nutshell.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 4,344 Senior Member
    Have a brew and calm down...
  • CO NativeCO Native Senior Member Posts: 1,093 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Ugh... The author got taken for a ride. Bigly. Charity network, my ****. They use the parishioners as slave labor and then sell the goods they produce for tax-free profits. Its tantamount to volunteering at gun point. If you are a pious LDS member you must do these things to ensure you get a good planet (yeah, look that up people) in the celestial kingdom. If you aren't pious, you risk losing your friends, family and social network by being shunned.
    Holy gullible, Batman! Why is it that when people get their 'callings' the rich guys get to take on positions of prestige and decision making while someone lower on the socio-economic ladder miraculously gets called to be the ward house janitor. Why does the rich guy never get picked by god to clean the ****?
    My neighbor the good Mormon just starts stuttering when I asked about this sort of thing.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,800 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Joe, for outdoor recreation this place is great. Best skiing in the world (not hyperbole), really good fishing, mountain biking Mecca. You name it, it's here. Fantastic weather too. Hey, I'm still here so I obviously dig being so close to the mountains.
    In short, it's the people. And not just the mormon ****. The people here just suck. Perhaps I'll delve deeper into it later but that's it in a nutshell.

    Are most of your neighbors there Mormon?

    I've moved across the country from the time I was young---guaranteed it's hard to fit into some new communities---cliques galore
    Maybe that's why my wife/kids and myself are a tight knit group---we kept to ourselves lots---still very happy tho
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,514 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Joe, for outdoor recreation this place is great. Best skiing in the world (not hyperbole), really good fishing, mountain biking Mecca. You name it, it's here.

    Kewl!!
    Fantastic weather too.

    I'm all about that. As I get older winter is starting to wear on me. I hate winter more and more every year that goes by.
    Hey, I'm still here so I obviously dig being so close to the mountains.

    Kewl!!
    In short, it's the people. And not just the mormon ****. The people here just suck. Perhaps I'll delve deeper into it later but that's it in a nutshell.

    I don't think I would have a problem with that.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    I think you were asking about Provo last year? I mean, you have to stay away from that place at all costs. Other than that I think you would like it here, Joe. Lots of the things you like to do are here as well as in WI. You will miss the trees though!

    Bushart,
    Where we lived for the past 8 years was very mo. We had two sets of neighbors that we could talk to on the whole street. Well, three that were cool in total but the other ones were early 20's so we didn't have much in common. ;)
    We moved into Ogden last fall into an old established neighborhood. Very, very different vibe. Neighbors that we have met so far are non-mo and really nice so that is good. Its been a great decision thus far.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 2,590 Senior Member
    I used to have a client that was co-CEO of a company in New York (Leucadia National). He was non-Mormon and lived in SLC. He absolutely loved it.

    His wife (she was probably his second or third, so I'm betting there was a pre-nup) wasn't such a fan. She'd go on all these liberal volunteer boards and stuff just to torture the Mormons.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    Yes Steven, I do believe attitude does play a role. And you guys know me. I'm fervently anti-religious so this place does tend to drive me nuts at times seeing that the separation of church and state is non-existent. I visit places like the front range in CO or Missoula, MT and I see what this place could and should be. It is getting better, I'll say that much. All of the CA people like Comic coming helps diversify the place. I welcome the transplants even if it means more crowded lift lines and trails.
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,800 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I think you were asking about Provo last year? I mean, you have to stay away from that place at all costs. Other than that I think you would like it here, Joe. Lots of the things you like to do are here as well as in WI. You will miss the trees though!

    Bushart,
    Where we lived for the past 8 years was very mo. We had two sets of neighbors that we could talk to on the whole street. Well, three that were cool in total but the other ones were early 20's so we didn't have much in common. ;)
    We moved into Ogden last fall into an old established neighborhood. Very, very different vibe. Neighbors that we have met so far are non-mo and really nice so that is good. Its been a great decision thus far.

    My Advice---baby steps in a new hood----Initially folks can seem nice---but take it in li'l increments---when we're kids--we make friends in a school yard---as adults it tends to be a bit more guarded

    Where I live reflects my Credo....Many people are Fracked
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 1,800 Senior Member
    I realize advice was not asked for---but consider real life experiences

    When moving into a new area---be cautious of the "Overly friendly" stranger---some times (not always) they are the loon that was ostracized from the core group---and lookin for a buddy before the reg folks get hold of ya.

    Life is fun...huh?
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    Yeah, that is good advice!
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 22,109 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Joe, for outdoor recreation this place is great. Best skiing in the world (not hyperbole), really good fishing, mountain biking Mecca. You name it, it's here. Fantastic weather too. Hey, I'm still here so I obviously dig being so close to the mountains.
    In short, it's the people. And not just the mormon ****. The people here just suck. Perhaps I'll delve deeper into it later but that's it in a nutshell.

    BTW I was going to ask when was the last day your ski area was open. But alas my ski season is over.

    The good news I skied Alta today and there were no lift lines whatsoever. The snow wasn't as nice as January. I can also tell you the the ski patrolmen are really good people.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 5,842 Senior Member
    April 9th for Powder Mountain. They are going to close with well over a 100" base. Sigh...
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,514 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    I think you were asking about Provo last year? I mean, you have to stay away from that place at all costs. Other than that I think you would like it here, Joe. Lots of the things you like to do are here as well as in WI. You will miss the trees though!

    Funny we are discussing this. Just a received a text last night from my buddy that owns the condo there. He's out there right now for one last ski trip then returning back to WI for a bit then going back out there in June to fish and bike...to train for the Leadville 100 bike race. I got another invite to join him there in June for some fishing and biking...don't think I'll have the available vacation time to do it though.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 2,628 Senior Member
    BTW I was going to ask when was the last day your ski area was open. But alas my ski season is over.

    what did you do?
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