Another stand your ground case.

MikeA

Sad day for all the families involved.

https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Famp%2F39413376#pt0-647831

CO Native

I guess the lesson learned here is, don't break into other people's houses.

sherb

This isn't stand your ground. Stand your ground laws apply outside your home. In your home (with one notable exception) you have always had the right to defend yourself.


Looks legit to me.

tim_s

this is castle doctrine, not stand your ground, yes?

tim_s

http://www.oklahoma-criminal-defense.com/media/oklahomas-castle-doctrine-and-stand-your-ground-laws

MikeA

sherb wrote: »

This isn't stand your ground. Stand your ground laws apply outside your home. In your home (with one notable exception) you have always had the right to defend yourself.


Looks legit to me.

I didn't realize that. Maybe they used the stand your ground reference for the one that died outside the home. Though he was likely shot inside. What is the one notable exception?

sherb

Massachusetts.

sherb

Or at least it was when I was in Law School. It might have changed.

tim_s

i think MA essentially states that it only applies within the 4 walls of your house; not the yard or porch, etc and i think there's a standard for level of forth commensurate with perceived threat

Buford

CO Native wrote: »

I guess the lesson learned here is, don't break into other people's houses.

Glad the son and dad are ok. A few more incidents like this and maybe people will figure out that crime can get them killed.
Now let's start with the, they shouldn't have been shot for just a robbery. They were good kids.

sherb

Buford wrote: »

Glad the son and dad are ok. A few more incidents like this and maybe people will figure out that crime can get them killed.
Now let's start with the, they shouldn't have been shot for just a robbery. They were good kids.

Lets not jump to conclusions. I doubt the target was random. There's a non-trivial chance that the shooter is the teens' dealer. Which doesn't justify a home invasion, but it also isn't going to win the shooter any awards from the Rotary Club.

CO Native

sherb wrote: »

Lets not jump to conclusions. I doubt the target was random. There's a non-trivial chance that the shooter is the teens' dealer.

So a businessman can't protect his business? ;-)

sherb

CO Native wrote: »

So a businessman can't protect his business? ;-)

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that he was doing that very thing.

MikeA

Never bring brass knuckles to an AR fight.

sherb

I'm going throw out some anecdata now. Home invasions are rare in America relative to unoccupied burglaries, and the reason is the distinct possibility of being killed during the attempt. So score one for the gun nuts; they are right about that. In my experience, almost all home invasions occur because of either the presence of drugs or to collect on a drug debt.

I don't have stats, but I'm sure they exist.

breamfisher

sherb wrote: »

I'm going throw out some anecdata now. Home invasions are rare in America relative to unoccupied burglaries, and the reason is the distinct possibility of being killed during the attempt. So score one for the gun nuts; they are right about that. In my experience, almost all home invasions occur because of either the presence of drugs or to collect on a drug debt.

I don't have stats, but I'm sure they exist.

I was just checking the stats on it, and it's hard to actually get the numbers. Turns out most home invasions are charged as robberies, kidnappings, murders, assaults, etc. So finding good data would require going back to the original data.

But I read a couple of articles where police chiefs basically said what you did, or that they were cases of mistaken identity (I thought it was a dealer's house...) Which isn't too odd when you consider even the police don't always get that right.

MikeA

When I read they had brass knuckles I also suspected that it wasn't a burglary. The article did say there had been several burglaries in the area though. I'm sure the driver will shed some light.

Shawn C.

Buford wrote: »

Now let's start with the, they shouldn't have been shot for just a robbery. They were good kids.

You aren't likely to get that argument from anyone here. They were inside the house. Three less mouths to feed on this over-crowded rock.

Buffco

Guys, if you shoot someone, drag them inside your house. Unless you live in Massachusetts. In that case, move.

tim_s

Buffco wrote: »

Guys, if you shoot someone, drag them inside your house. Unless you live in Massachusetts. In that case, move.

nope, just drag them inside and place a knife from your butcher block in their hand (uncles were MSP, and grew up there.....this was always their advice)

NZ Indicator

sherb wrote: »

I'm going throw out some anecdata now. Home invasions are rare in America relative to unoccupied burglaries, and the reason is the distinct possibility of being killed during the attempt. So score one for the gun nuts; they are right about that. In my experience, almost all home invasions occur because of either the presence of drugs or to collect on a drug debt.

I don't have stats, but I'm sure they exist.

I live in a rather crime free area. However...about 3 miles down the road from me...further out in the country and away from town...there has been a rash of home invasions in the last 2 years. The criminals doing it are spending time (3-4 weeks) casing the homes and learning the habits of the homeowners so they know when the owners are gone and the house is empty. Then one day bamm...they break into the home and rob it when nobody is home. Last time I talked to one of the home owners (about a month ago) the people haven't been caught yet.

sherb

NZ Indicator wrote: »

I live in a rather crime free area. However...about 3 miles down the road from me...further out in the country and away from town...there has been a rash of home invasions in the last 2 years. The criminals doing it are spending time (3-4 weeks) casing the homes and learning the habits of the homeowners so they know when the owners are gone and the house is empty. Then one day bamm...they break into the home and rob it when nobody is home. Last time I talked to one of the home owners (about a month ago) the people haven't been caught yet.

yes, its much safer for the burglar. Not surprised.

I should clarify the nomenclature I'm using. To us, a home invasion is a burglary where the homeowner is home at the time, in contrast to an unoccupied burglary. Unoccupied burglaries are common everywhere.

Buffco

To us gun nuts, a home invasion means baddies are breaking in to **** us and​ steal our wive's Nascar collector's plate set. That's why we keep our Rambo head bands and AK47s at the ready.

You effete types take your kids fishing. We teach ours room clearing drills, how to slice the pie, and avoiding the cone of death. My three year old twins can effectively lay down suppressive fire and perform an Australian peel in order to flank **** home invaders, thus gaining the tactical upper hand and ensuring daddy's booty hole virginity is safe.

sherb

Buffco wrote: »

To us gun nuts, a home invasion means baddies are breaking in to **** us and​ steal our wive's Nascar collector's plate set. That's why we keep our Rambo head bands and AK47s at the ready.

You effete types take your kids fishing. We teach ours room clearing drills, how to slice the pie, and avoiding the cone of death. My three year old twins can effectively lay down suppressive fire and perform an Australian peel in order to flank **** home invaders, thus gaining the tactical upper hand and ensuring daddy's booty hole virginity is safe.

This is the greatest post in the history of Western Civilization. My day is made. Long live the gun nuts.

Shawn C.

Holy good lord Buffy. Too funny!

Are your twins named Walker and Texas Ranger?

ricinus

Buffy, you own the day..

Mike

MikeA

Buffco wrote: »

To us gun nuts, a home invasion means baddies are breaking in to **** us and​ steal our wive's Nascar collector's plate set. That's why we keep our Rambo head bands and AK47s at the ready.

You effete types take your kids fishing. We teach ours room clearing drills, how to slice the pie, and avoiding the cone of death. My three year old twins can effectively lay down suppressive fire and perform an Australian peel in order to flank **** home invaders, thus gaining the tactical upper hand and ensuring daddy's booty hole virginity is safe.

I didn't realize we lived so close to each other lol.

breamfisher

I didn't realize Buffco still had booty hole virginity.

CO Native

Buffco, that's priceless - haha.
A few years back there was a guy with his kid walking around with a puppy. They'd ring the doorbell of a house to see if anyone answered. If they did, they just said that they found the puppy and wondered if it belonged to the homeowner. If nobody answered, then it was only a matter of time before the house was broken into.

Some guy in our hood had them come to his door. He got all excited and said, "yes, it's my puppy, thanks for bringing him home", took the puppy and closed the door. He went straight in and called the cops. They busted the guy and to find out, the puppy was even stolen - haha.

George K

CO Native wrote: »

Buffco, that's priceless - haha.
A few years back there was a guy with his kid walking around with a puppy. They'd ring the doorbell of a house to see if anyone answered. If they did, they just said that they found the puppy and wondered if it belonged to the homeowner. If nobody answered, then it was only a matter of time before the house was broken into.

Some guy in our hood had them come to his door. He got all excited and said, "yes, it's my puppy, thanks for bringing him home", took the puppy and closed the door. He went straight in and called the cops. They busted the guy and to find out, the puppy was even stolen - haha.

This is good!

Bushart

I'm not buyin the virginity thang....just sayin:p