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  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    The Alt-right is not the religious right. Its the post-religious right.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/breaking-faith/517785/?utm_source=twb

    Very good article. Much more encompassing that the title suggests. From the article's conclusion:
    Maybe it’s the values of hierarchy, authority, and tradition that churches instill. Maybe religion builds habits and networks that help people better weather national traumas, and thus retain their faith that the system works. For whatever reason, secularization isn’t easing political conflict. It’s making American politics even more convulsive and zero-sum.

    Is religion the only social institution that instills the above values? I think there may be something deeper at work here. We are becoming more tribal and less social. Maybe the downward trend in social interaction and growing self-imposed isolationism is the larger problem.

    Very good article and I like the author's rationale even if I don't believe that secularization is the #1 contributor.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,280 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Wow...

    Tell us more how you don't watch Faux News or listen to right-wing hate speech radio.
    I don't. I haven't looked at the TV in over 2 months now. Too busy biking and fishing.

    But tell me again that airport security has been increased since 9/11 because of right wing terrorism.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,280 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    It went on for longer then I thought. Comic reminds me of my sister. She will not stop until you tell her she's right.

    I love you comic.
    Comic just likes to argue. It's like this for him...

    a7520cfe0e3624d83feaf420f710e6bf.jpg

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    Its security theater, Joe. It isn't really that effective except for its value of public perception.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 12,280 Senior Member
    And public perception matters.

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  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    And public perception matters.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    I agree. However Comic will be along shortly to disagree with me. ;)
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    The Alt-right is not the religious right. Its the post-religious right.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/breaking-faith/517785/?utm_source=twb

    And Al Queda is not Islam.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Since you're abdicating...I call it religion.


    Okay so ban Christians then.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    It went on for longer then I thought. Comic reminds me of my sister. She will not stop until you tell her she's right.

    I love you comic.


    No you just have to provide a cogent argument. Which you have not. Religion is just another ideology people will use as an excuse. There are over a billion Muslims in the world, they are more often the victims of religious extremism and the majority of them are fighting against ISIS and Al Queda, your logic for banning them is weak and based on fear, prejudice and ignorance.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    You might want to turn the channel on your tv. Get outside. Interact more with other people who don't think like you.

    I do. How many people that do not think like you have you ever talked to? How many Muslims have you ever met?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,443 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    It's the same ole argument he'll use for everything. "Conservatives" did it. At some point it'll turn to ****, then the Crusades...
    At least Sherb, George, and others offer some sort of alternative thinking on the matter.

    wait a **** minute. . . how did I get lumped in with these libs? :)

    Don't you think the best argument should be the one that eschews either the apocalyptic thinking or the relativism? In other words, why talk about dirty bombs or Timothy McVeigh when we can simply deal with the facts as they exist?
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,585 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »

    Don't you think the best argument should be the one that eschews either the apocalyptic thinking or the relativism? In other words, why talk about dirty bombs or Timothy McVeigh when we can simply deal with the facts as they exist?

    Hi friend. You must be new here.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,443 Senior Member
    And Al Queda is not Islam.

    Not sure I understand. Al Queda is not the whole of Islam, but every card-carrying member of AQ is an Islamicist. The Alt-right is not a subset of the religious right. Its a completely different animal.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,255 Senior Member
    I do. How many people that do not think like you have you ever talked to? How many Muslims have you ever met?

    A better question would be how many have I hired. The answer would probably surprise you, alot. But I can't go there NSFW.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    Not sure I understand. Al Queda is not the whole of Islam, but every card-carrying member of AQ is an Islamicist. The Alt-right is not a subset of the religious right. Its a completely different animal.

    And Al Queda is a completely different animal to Islam, they are Islam's version of the KKK. Every KKK member is a Christian.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    A better question would be how many have I hired. The answer would probably surprise you, alot. But I can't go there NSFW.

    Have you told them you think they are all terrorists?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,255 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    wait a **** minute. . . how did I get lumped in with these libs? :)

    Don't you think the best argument should be the one that eschews either the apocalyptic thinking or the relativism? In other words, why talk about dirty bombs or Timothy McVeigh when we can simply deal with the facts as they exist?

    Awe hell Sherb, you're one the the Lodge's Brain Trusts. If I lump you into anything, it's a good lump.


    This is like a sounding board for me. I've shaped my opinion based on some of the conversations I've had here over the years. I feel like I've learned alot from some of you. I've also learned that some folks are just closed minded, arrogant, condescending, **** (Nobody that's here now or been here lately). OK,, it was Hex :) JK So in short, I enjoy the posts here, and the level playing field with some very intelligent people that this forum provides. If I **** you off its not because I don't like you, it's likely because I'm trying to see if my southern way of thinking is as backwards as I see with some of my fellow backwoods friends.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,255 Senior Member
    Have you told them you think they are all terrorists?

    Do you tell all the Christians and rightwads you meet how you think they are the biggest threat to our society?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    I don't and I am not trying to ban them from entering the country. I have the ability to discern and believe in innocence before proven guilty.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,443 Senior Member
    And Al Queda is a completely different animal to Islam, they are Islam's version of the KKK. Every KKK member is a Christian.

    What is it about the Left that every time this topic comes up, they feel an abiding need to point out Christianity's sins and that our ways our not better. There's something deeply embedded in the liberal psyche that feels the need to engage in some sort of theological arms race.

    Take it from one of your own: this attempt to show equivalence is doomed to failure.

    http://commonsensewonder.blogspot.com/2017/03/bill-maher-shuts-down-liberal-narrative.html
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,255 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    What is it about the Left that every time this topic comes up, they feel an abiding need to point out Christianity's sins and that our ways our not better. There's something deeply embedded in the liberal psyche that feels the need to engage in some sort of theological arms race.

    Take it from one of your own: this attempt to show equivalence is doomed to failure.

    http://commonsensewonder.blogspot.com/2017/03/bill-maher-shuts-down-liberal-narrative.html

    The mind boggles how the liberal psyche can even want to make that comparison. These armies Maher mentioned if left unchecked would march across every continent, systematically wiping it clean of every liberal minded man woman and child. In the name of
    .
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 7,027 Senior Member
    Sherb, My dislike for religion knows no bounds. I've always liked Bill Maher for his stance on that as it echoes my own.

    But if I may: I think it may be proximity bias. We see and hear about the hypocrisy of our religious fundamentalists because they are our countrymen and it is part of our news cycle and daily lives. We were just discussing Gorsuch and the Hobby Lobby thing for instance. We haven't had a thread on the political nuances of Islam and how it affects the daily lives in Islamabad for a while. Just a theory...
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    What is it about the Left that every time this topic comes up, they feel an abiding need to point out Christianity's sins and that our ways our not better. There's something deeply embedded in the liberal psyche that feels the need to engage in some sort of theological arms race.

    Take it from one of your own: this attempt to show equivalence is doomed to failure.

    http://commonsensewonder.blogspot.com/2017/03/bill-maher-shuts-down-liberal-narrative.html

    I am not pointing out Christianities sins. I am pointing out that of the billion of Muslims in the World AQ and ISIS are a fringe element and to prejudge a billion people on their behavior is no different than doing the same to Christians or conservatives because of the nutjobs that flow from their ranks.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    What is it about the Left that every time this topic comes up, they feel an abiding need to point out Christianity's sins and that our ways our not better. There's something deeply embedded in the liberal psyche that feels the need to engage in some sort of theological arms race.

    Take it from one of your own: this attempt to show equivalence is doomed to failure.

    http://commonsensewonder.blogspot.com/2017/03/bill-maher-shuts-down-liberal-narrative.html

    Funny how that the only time Bill Maher is not a blowhard is on this issue and he is wrong.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    MikeA wrote: »
    The mind boggles how the liberal psyche can even want to make that comparison. These armies Maher mentioned if left unchecked would march across every continent, systematically wiping it clean of every liberal minded man woman and child. In the name of
    .

    You do get that the armies that are battling those armies are made up of Muslims, right?

    No Muslim ever cyber stalked me and threatened me with violence. But conservatives have.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 6,255 Senior Member
    You do get that the armies that are battling those armies are made up of Muslims, right?

    No Muslim ever cyber stalked me and threatened me with violence. But conservatives have.

    I do. I also realize it's been that way FOREVER. It's not as peaceful as they might lead you to believe. You have to wonder why is that they can't seem to get along without the constant wars. Then you have to wonder if we open our doors to the refugees from those places, will they just bring that war here.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    We have allowed almost a million of them here since 2003 no war yet.

    India and Pakistan have been in almost constant conflict. In the US they live in the same neighborhoods.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 6,443 Senior Member
    I agree with Comic about the refugees for the reasons I've stated above. I don't know if anybody bothered to note it, but we have much more rigorous vetting systems than Europe, and as I stated, we shouldn't be running scared all the time. Is this really us? Sack up.

    I disagree with Comic about the nature of the enemy and I find especially irritating the liberal tendency to immediately invoke domestic terrorism as some sort of defense of refugees. First of all, its not necessary. Second, its just not true that Fundamentalist Christians are as violent as fundamentalist Muslims. Christians have made their peace with the secular world. A non-trivial number of Muslims haven't. The fact that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists doesn't change the fact that millions are sympathetic to the ends of Islamic Fundamentalism, if not the means. That's just the reality of the situation.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    The KKK and Militia movement are not fundamentalist Christians. ISIS are not fundamentalist Muslims. If you were to ask the majority of Fundamentalist Christians if they would like a country ruled by the principles contained in Deuteronomy and Leviticus (which is very similar to fundamentalist interpretations of Sharia) they would say yes. Pat Robertson once said that sodomy should be punished by death and they have tried to promote that in Uganda. As you said they would not use violence to attain that, however they are sympathetic to many of the things Muslim Fundamentalists are.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,564 Senior Member
    We most certainly must keep this kid out if we want to be safe from terrorists.

    https://tsosrefugees.org/stories/azim
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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