Do We Need to Spend an Additional $54 Billion on Defense?

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  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,290 Senior Member
    And you have posted in every single one of them.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,290 Senior Member
    Funny how you leftwads have double standards when a republican is in the white house. :p

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    Show your work.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Funny how you leftwads have double standards when a republican is in the white house. :p

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    Now this is the funniest thing I've read on the lodge in months, maybe years.

    If Clinton had been elected and she had done and said everything that trump has, she'd be eviscerated. Look at them line up behind him on Russia, something like 43% of republicans think Putin is just fine. Now talk about a double standard. If Flynn was working for Clinton, there would already be calls for impeachment, if she praised Putin, they'd be at the gates with torches and pitchforks. I could probably list twenty more instances where if a republican did it it's fine, if a dem did it oh boy. Everyone knows it's true, it's been in our face everyday for months. Do double standards exist with some on the left, certainly, they are human as well...but the reps have long believed that Party is above every other thing and have demonstrated it year after year. It is the party of no after all, only look at the last eight years, the eight years under clinton,.... I wonder if they have any standards left.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    Thank god that crook Clinton wasn't elected...
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    A lot went over your head it appears. Now I despise Hillary, but you elected the real cook and a pathological liar. I guess you were never one of his sub contractors.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    I voted Gary Johnson

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  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,683 Senior Member
    I voted Gary Johnson

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    Good for you.

    A vote for Johnson, Stein or write-ins for Sanders or the Flying Spaghetti Monster God, etc. effectively was a vote for Trump. So in reality you chose the worse of two bad options.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • tim_stim_s Senior Member Posts: 1,947 Senior Member
    I voted Gary Johnson

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    that really isn't something to be proud of
    Fly Fishing in Maine - www.flyfishinginmaine.com
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    tim_s wrote: »
    that really isn't something to be proud of
    I wouldn't be proud of voting for Trump or Clinton.

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  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    And you have posted in every single one of them.
    Need to keep those with blinders on in check...

    The sky isn't falling...

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  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,683 Senior Member
    I wouldn't be proud of voting for Trump or Clinton.

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    Sometimes you have to man up and vote for the least bad candidate. Hillary (and Bill) survived many investigations. Trump has not yet been tested and I doubt that his business dealings stayed within the law over the years.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    Sometimes you have to man up and vote for the least bad candidate.

    That's what I did. :cool:


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  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,290 Senior Member
    Need to keep those with blinders on in check...

    The sky isn't falling...

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    Well when coal ash or oil from a pipeline ends up in your favorite stream, get back to us.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    Well when coal ash or oil from a pipeline ends up in your favorite stream, get back to us.
    You get back to us when that actually happens.

    Seriously...4-8 years from now we'll still be fishing our favorite streams and there will still be fish in them.

    The sky isn't falling...

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  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,683 Senior Member

    Seriously...4-8 years from now we'll still be fishing our favorite streams and there will still be fish in them.


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    Three-headed orange bullheads. :p
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,290 Senior Member
    You get back to us when that actually happens.

    Seriously...4-8 years from now we'll still be fishing our favorite streams and there will still be fish in them.

    The sky isn't falling...

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    Already has happened and will happen with more frequency. Not to mention Bristol Bay, they are going to strip mine the hell out of it now. And guess what, there will be no jobs coming to America to build air conditioners or to sell insurance. There will however be 20 million people that will no longer have insurance. Oh and the deficit will increase without a peep from you or the Republicans.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,565 Senior Member
    Oh ****, I never even thought of the Bristol Bay headwaters mining thing coming back.

    ****...
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,552 Senior Member
    What has the EPA been doing pursuant to the clean water act for the 43 years prior to the implementation of the Obama rule? Nothing?

    Why is this rule-implemented mere months ago-the end all be all?
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    In four to eight years we will be catching the same fish as always? Whoa. With the huge areas of permafrost that has recently become "unfrosted" you will see temperature soar very soon. Trout are having problems everywhere to varying degrees with water temps rising. Smallmouth will be the answer for a short time....then it will be Georges bullheads. It amazes me today that people still think that life is going carry on just as it always has. That human activity has no consequences on the planet or on society and culture.


    and the EPA? that's another thread...but I will say what they do depends on what we demand...but we all seem to have other priorities, nothing is more important than the water we drink (if there is any) the air we breathe the ground we stand on. We don't exist without all three. Take just one away and there is no job creation, no tax cuts, no profit, no luxuries, no play time...
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    Wetdog wrote: »
    In four to eight years we will be catching the same fish as always? Whoa. With the huge areas of permafrost that has recently become "unfrosted" you will see temperature soar very soon. Trout are having problems everywhere to varying degrees with water temps rising. Smallmouth will be the answer for a short time....then it will be Georges bullheads. It amazes me today that people still think that life is going carry on just as it always has. That human activity has no consequences on the planet or on society and culture.


    and the EPA? that's another thread...but I will say what they do depends on what we demand...but we all seem to have other priorities, nothing is more important than the water we drink (if there is any) the air we breathe the ground we stand on. We don't exist without all three. Take just one away and there is no job creation, no tax cuts, no profit, no luxuries, no play time...
    Meh...I've been hearing that every year for the past 25+ years when in fact the opposite has happened. Trout fishing has become better in our state and elsewhere. I find it funny every time we have a "hotter than normal" summer everyone thinks the sky is falling and all the trout are going to die blah, blah, blah...

    So yeah...in 4-8 years you and I will still be catching trout out of the Prairie and Tomorrow River systems or any of the other places we fish. Trump isn't going make our trout disappear here or anywhere else.

    Fight the real battles here at home...factory farms, high capacity wells and frac sand mining...not some politician in DC.


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  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    tell yourself that. I don't fight dc or politics maybe I should have voted for walker and my rep state reps, they'll make sure that there won't be anymore approvals of cpw etc. you do get that the things you mention are all involved with climate change ..on one end or the other. Just remember this a couple years from now. Never give in to the foolishness of climate change, it doesn't exist.

    btw the tomorrow has been warming. It's gotten better becasue of habitat work, less and less is being done, soon the DNR will have no money for it. Wetland classification is changing, more loss.......hey did you vote for Sean Duffy, he'll be a big help to us.:p
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    Tell myself what? It's been documented in our state that we have more miles of trout water right now than we did 50+ years ago.

    IMO...and for another debate...climate change is inevitable and more or less out of our control. Internationally there is too human resistance to make the changes needed to have any sort of impact.

    I don't have much history with the Tomorrow, but I have been fishing it with more frequency the past 4 years in a row and it has been fishing very well.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,852 Senior Member
    ...climate change is inevitable and more or less out of our control. Internationally there is too human resistance to make the changes needed to have any sort of impact.

    I disagree, If the world would actually agree that climate change is real, then we can start working on not pumping all the crap that we do into the atmosphere. Joe, you're too young to remember the green bubble that existed above Chicago, or the bubble that exists above LA. We are putting this stuff up there, we can try and stop doing it. The inevitable doesn't have to be.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    Climate change is real. That can't be denied.

    Good luck on getting 7 billion+ people agreeing to move in the same direction.


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  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    Climate change is real. That can't be denied.

    Good luck on getting 7 billion+ people agreeing to move in the same direction.


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    I am sympathetic to Wetdog, but reality says we no longer can get off the train. Bring on the Fusion power (and the AC)!
    BTW, the trout have responded to better management techniques, not warmer temps.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    And more enlightened anglers too..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    I am sympathetic to Wetdog, but reality says we no longer can get off the train. Bring on the Fusion power (and the AC)!
    BTW, the trout have responded to better management techniques, not warmer temps.

    truth there, it is probably too late, we had a chance but the window is nearly closed especially with all that former permafrost. They say vast areas in Russia will "un freeze" this year dumping tons of methane into the atmosphere. We are screwed, even fusion isn't going to help.

    You are right about the Trout as I referenced earlier. You combine higher temps with the new anti water laws protecting springs and other wetlands in this State and elsewhere, our streams are screwed. We used to have the strongest environmental laws in the country, we now are waaaaayy down the list. And no jobs were created when they got rid of all those pesky regulations.

    Guys like NZ tell me to be concerned about my home instead of Washington. Well as long as these guys keep voting for the same guys and complain that things don't change..... The rapid proliferation of High cap wells threatens communities, homes and streams. We have sand mining, destroying the terrain, destroying groundwater,.... I've spent most of my life on environmental issues, worked in streams for over fifteen years, I vote environmentally because whatever selfish institutions man creates and destroys it's all temporary, it's the air, water and land that supports life, not Wall Street. Lose it and we are there is no more hope.

    NZ tells me to focus close to home, well I have for a long time. not trying to be a **** but you can't expect anything to be different if you keep sending the same old [R] legislators that are destroying our environment back to the legislature year after year. I'd still be in the stream if it wasn't for my heart, What is he doing? Probably what most do, they use the resource they buy Trout stamps. Maybe he does more than that I don't know. Now He's a good guy, we don't agree on much, but I have to expect that it is impossible for him to change his mind on much and I don't hold it against him.;)
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,935 Senior Member
    I devoted 14 years of my life running a grass roots organization trying to improve and protect my home water. Spent another 3 years on the local TU board.

    I'm out of both organizations now though. Got burnt out. Now I just fish.

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