The Clock is Ticking for Flynn

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Replies

  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 928 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I agree. But process is as important as outcome in a country ostensibly governed by the rule of law. . . counselor.

    I agree that ends don't necessarily justify means. However, I don't have confidence that the right means--Congress investigating--would happen without the leaks. Rand Paul couldn't be bothered.

    I do know that the leakers are playing with fire.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,663 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »

    Eh... Where there's smoke there's fire.

    I think the author is falsely accusing too many of us of panicking over Russia's actions. I think he has that wrong. What we are worried about is the very real possibility of more instances of collusion prior to the inauguration.

    Serious question: Are we talking treason here?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,442 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    The Left is heaping praise on the unelected bureaucracy (or as Ed B might say, "the deep state") for these leaks, but I doubt that they would feel the same way about someone leaking Obama's negotiations with Iran, for example. Transparency is good, but it's not an unalloyed good. Trump needs to be able to maintain some of his work product with some degree of confidence. This is NOT about institutions pushing back. This is executive branch employees cowboying it up. I don't like the precedent it sets.

    Here is the difference. We knew Obama was negotiating with Iran.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,663 Senior Member
    Sherb,
    Don't be dropping unalloyed on me. I'm still trying to figure out who in the hell the Medicis are.

    Comic,
    Also, Obama was, you know, President at the time.
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 928 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »

    If anything, that article validates the leaking by the intelligence community.

    The author says:

    Here’s the thing: I understand why the bureaucracy and the intelligence agencies are behaving the way they are. It’s not just that they are opposed to Trump’s policies, or that they have personal reasons to hate Flynn or Bannon or anybody else on the Trump team. It’s that they are genuinely afraid that this administration is functionally a threat to national security because it contains highly placed individuals actively working for a foreign power or, at best, extremely senior people (including the President himself) who flagrantly disregard basic security precautions:

    He then goes on to say:

    It certainly looks at this point like major elements within the national security bureaucracy are prepared to create a constitutional crisis in response to what they believe is a serious and real threat to American national security from the White House itself. And there is really only one way to avoid such a crisis: for Congress to step up and begin the necessary investigations of the Trump administration.

    I completely understand why a Republican Congress would be reluctant to do this. There’s not only the risk that they’d cripple their own party’s presidency; there’s the very real risk of retaliation by the Trump administration, and the President taking steps to mobilize his supporters against members of Congress that threaten him.

    Congress needs to step up to the plate and do its job. The author acknowledges It will be reluctant to do that. The leaks will hopefully give it some resolve.

    It is legitimate to be concerned about unelected bureaucrats conducting a soft coup. But in this case the focus should be getting to the bottom of the Russian's interference in the election, any role by the Trump campaign in that interference, any pre-inauguration back channel dealings on sanction and, generally, **** is going on with Trump and Russia.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,597 Senior Member
    I don't disagree with any of that, but the less serious issue is still an issue. I think most of us are capable of holding two simultaneous thoughts: Trump is up to no good, AND a bureaucratic coup d'tat is bad regardless of who it benefits and/or hurts.

    Congress needs to step up to the plate and do its job. The author acknowledges It will be reluctant to do that. The leaks will hopefully give it some resolve.

    That would be nice. The only problem is the leaks incentivize Congress to investigate the leaks, not necessarily what was leaked.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,442 Senior Member
    You know who else was more concerned about who was leaking what and not about what was being leaked? Nixon.

    Much of this is very similar to Watergate. Trying to steal secrets from a rival to gain political advantage and then claiming executive privilege to avoid the scandal. It also appears that Trump believes in an imperial presidency as well.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,442 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    I don't disagree with any of that, but the less serious issue is still an issue. I think most of us are capable of holding two simultaneous thoughts: Trump is up to no good, AND a bureaucratic coup d'tat is bad regardless of who it benefits and/or hurts.



    That would be nice. The only problem is the leaks incentivize Congress to investigate the leaks, not necessarily what was leaked.

    Here is the problem, what you are claiming are leaks of classified information are actually evidence of potentially criminal acts. These are not the secret missile launch codes.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,597 Senior Member
    yeah. . .this seems to be the left's line going forward. Pick a side. I must respectfully decline. I think Trump is bad and the leaks are bad, no matter what greater good they may serve.
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,597 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »

    That would be nice. The only problem is the leaks incentivize Congress to investigate the leaks, not necessarily what was leaked.

    By the way, this is holding up quite nicely.
  • MikeAMikeA Senior Member Posts: 3,703 Senior Member
    If Flynn was the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency don't you think he knew his calls were being monitored? Are there transcripts of what was said?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,442 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    By the way, this is holding up quite nicely.

    This will change with a Democratic Congress.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,507 Senior Member
    So Trumpeter puts on the great....Look Over There Move yesterday

    Evil Media...Bad Media etc etc
    Funny not talking much about Russia---how great Flynn is and how he's a victim here

    Hey did anyone check Flynn for Stigmata?
  • CuddyCuddy Senior Member Posts: 344 Senior Member
    This will change with a Democratic Congress.

    It's cute how you still think you'll be having free elections again anytime soon.

    "Folks, it's bad folks. Believe me, if we had elections now the fake news would be so unfair, so unfair. Honestly, believe me, it's for the best that we postpone the vote until we get to the bottom of this. Fake news, just the worst. It's their fault.They've poisoned the mind of the voters, of everyday folks like you and me and now we don't know what to believe. Don't know what to believe. And I had a tremendous victory, just 2 years ago. Tremendous, people still talk about it, how big it was. And what's changed? What's changed? Nothing. The people still want me, no matter what the fake media, the biased media says. So we'll postpone the vote, just for 6 months, till we find out whats going on. 6 months. A year, 2 years, people say 3 years. What does it matter."
  • BushartBushart Senior Member Posts: 2,507 Senior Member
    Cuddy wrote: »
    It's cute how you still think you'll be having free elections again anytime soon.

    "Folks, it's bad folks. Believe me, if we had elections now the fake news would be so unfair, so unfair. Honestly, believe me, it's for the best that we postpone the vote until we get to the bottom of this. Fake news, just the worst. It's their fault.They've poisoned the mind of the voters, of everyday folks like you and me and now we don't know what to believe. Don't know what to believe. And I had a tremendous victory, just 2 years ago. Tremendous, people still talk about it, how big it was. And what's changed? What's changed? Nothing. The people still want me, no matter what the fake media, the biased media says. So we'll postpone the vote, just for 6 months, till we find out whats going on. 6 months. A year, 2 years, people say 3 years. What does it matter."

    Man that tone is so close it's scary---Bravo
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,597 Senior Member
    Cuddy wrote: »
    It's cute how you still think you'll be having free elections again anytime soon.

    "Folks, it's bad folks. Believe me, if we had elections now the fake news would be so unfair, so unfair. Honestly, believe me, it's for the best that we postpone the vote until we get to the bottom of this. Fake news, just the worst. It's their fault.They've poisoned the mind of the voters, of everyday folks like you and me and now we don't know what to believe. Don't know what to believe. And I had a tremendous victory, just 2 years ago. Tremendous, people still talk about it, how big it was. And what's changed? What's changed? Nothing. The people still want me, no matter what the fake media, the biased media says. So we'll postpone the vote, just for 6 months, till we find out whats going on. 6 months. A year, 2 years, people say 3 years. What does it matter."

    I would have thought this were crazy, except today we learn that Trump's administration floated a trial balloon to have the National Guard start rounding up illegals. This is a terrible idea on so many levels that I can't even talk about it, not to mention blatantly illegal.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 10,237 Senior Member
    sherb wrote: »
    By the way, this is holding up quite nicely.
    Are sherb predictions making a comeback?
  • sherbsherb Senior Member Posts: 3,597 Senior Member
    i have been duly chastened. but this one turned out to be an easy call.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,663 Senior Member
    Cuddy,
    It's like you and the Orange Fuhrer are of the same wind. Well Done!

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