So why is it....

jbillyjbilly Senior MemberPosts: 5,174 Senior Member
...that when Trump hasn't even taken office he is chastised for ruffling China's feathers. Yet Kerry and Obama are giving Israel a big giant f#$* you in their last lame duck 22 days and that is ok?

Here's hoping Trump moves the embassy to Jerusalem on day 2.
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Replies

  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,854 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    ...that when Trump hasn't even taken office he is chastised for ruffling China's feathers. Yet Kerry and Obama are giving Israel a big giant f#$* you in their last lame duck 22 days and that is ok?

    Here's hoping Trump moves the embassy to Jerusalem on day 2.

    Clearly the right wing world doesn't think Obama's Israeli position is ok, he's taking a lot of heat. When the two state deal finally collapses you and everyone else can blame Obama.

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • creekguycreekguy Senior Member Posts: 3,905 Senior Member
    Obama is still president, and I guess he is telling Bibi how he really feels. "Israel can be Jewish or it can be a democracy, it can't be both" Kerry said.

    As for Trump: at one time China and the U.S. were close to war over Taiwan, then an accommodation was created to reduce tensions. That agreement stood the test of time. Trump ignorantly suggested he would change U.S. policy, without clearing it with anyone who was familiar with the issues. Any change in policy like that should be the result of careful consideration, as should the embassy site, not just a campaign boast.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,174 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    Obama is still president, and I guess he is telling Bibi how he really feels.

    True. 22 days to go.
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    Obama is still president, and I guess he is telling Bibi how he really feels. "Israel can be Jewish or it can be a democracy, it can't be both" Kerry said.

    Not exactly, what Kerry said is that if there were a one-state solution, Israel can be Jewish or it can be a democracy, it can't be both. He's correct here in my opinion.
    creekguy wrote: »
    As for Trump: at one time China and the U.S. were close to war over Taiwan, then an accommodation was created to reduce tensions. That agreement stood the test of time. Trump ignorantly suggested he would change U.S. policy, without clearing it with anyone who was familiar with the issues. Any change in policy like that should be the result of careful consideration, as should the embassy site, not just a campaign boast.

    Two things here:
    1) Anything that happens re: Trump, Taiwan, and China will be owned by Trump for the next four years. Obama just made a MAJOR change in the dynamics of the Middle East by reversing our long held stand that two-party negotiation is the appropriate path to reach agreement on any settlement issues, and that the U.N. is not the place to pursue peace between the Palestinian Authority and the state of Israel. And then, he left it for Trump to deal with.

    I believe that something like this so late in the term is totally unprecedented.

    2) What good reason is there not to move our embassy to West Jerusalem? Refusing to move it there sends the message that the status of all Jerusalem is yet to be determined. Is that our government's official position? We don't want to move it to East Jerusalem, fine. But why not West Jerusalem?
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Does Trump really have a policy on anything (At least longer than 140 characters)?

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member
    Makes for short meetings
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,693 Senior Member
    A President elect meddling in domestic or foreign policy is a sharp break with tradition, but of course tradition means nothing to our new caudillo.

    p.s. Bibi had this long-overdue kick in the nuts coming to him. Someone should tell him that friends don't give speeches in a friend's legislature and insult the Head of State.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Payback is a ****..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • StevenSteven Senior Member Posts: 3,194 Senior Member
    Touche' George.

    But "friend's" is pushing it. Obama was never Israel's friend, and he pushed the Iran deal despite Netanyahu's (and our other Arab allies) protestations.

    Bibi tweeted a picture of Obama in a yarmulke at the Western Wall praying next to a Chasid. The tagline says basically, "The U.N. says this belongs to the Palestinians. Really?"


    Anyway, we can argue all day long about whether it's the right thing or not, but the point remains that this was a major shift that he left for Trump to deal with.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,559 Senior Member
    I don't know enough about the particulars of this to make an educated comment on whether it's good or bad for Israel. It doesn't sound "good" based on most of the public opinion from both democrats and republicans.
    Seems to me like this would push a measurable percentage of voters away from the Democratic party. Why would Bronco Bama do this? Spite for Bibi or starting fires for the next president are a scary thought if that is the case. More innocent blood could be spilled over this spite or disdain for the PEOTUS by Bronco?
    Smells fishier than a dead Carp in the sun.
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,559 Senior Member
    .... is the dude THAT pissed about his crumbling "legacy"?
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,854 Senior Member
    swizz wrote: »
    I don't know enough about the particulars of this to make an educated comment on whether it's good or bad for Israel. It doesn't sound "good" based on most of the public opinion from both democrats and republicans.
    Seems to me like this would push a measurable percentage of voters away from the Democratic party. Why would Bronco Bama do this? Spite for Bibi or starting fires for the next president are a scary thought if that is the case. More innocent blood could be spilled over this spite or disdain for the PEOTUS by Bronco?
    Smells fishier than a dead Carp in the sun.


    You should really learn about this before you pass judgement. I'm not exactly sure how you think this will push measurable democrats from the party. Every single democratic I know, think abstaining from the vote was, as one friend put it; "it's about f**king time somebody stood up to yahoo"

    Just so you know, this has been going on for decades.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,174 Senior Member
    You should really learn about this before you pass judgement. I'm not exactly sure how you think this will push measurable democrats from the party. Every single democratic I know, think abstaining from the vote was, as one friend put it; "it's about f**king time somebody stood up to yahoo"

    Just so you know, this has been going on for decades.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Check with the lefties leadership. Chuck Schumer was not even close to saying that.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/26/senate-democrats-condemn-obama-anti-israel-un-vote/

    How odd I couldn't find it on CNN or MSNBC or....

    And if we want the anecdotal friends evidence game I've got two flaming liberal friends who are both Jewish and both are having major conniption fits over Obamas new direction. as I would imagine most Jews would.
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,854 Senior Member
    I don't believe this is a new direction for Obama.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Netanyahu has been pushing the envelope for a while now, got a little push back and doesn't like it..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,854 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    Check with the lefties leadership. Chuck Schumer was not even close to saying that.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/26/senate-democrats-condemn-obama-anti-israel-un-vote/

    How odd I couldn't find it on CNN or MSNBC or....

    And if we want the anecdotal friends evidence game I've got two flaming liberal friends who are both Jewish and both are having major conniption fits over Obamas new direction. as I would imagine most Jews would.


    First of all, I could give crap what Shumer thinks about this. He's just another establishment politician.

    Secondly, Breitbart? Give me a break.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • swizzswizz Senior Member Posts: 2,559 Senior Member
    If Goldendale says it's a great thing then count me in! No further edumacation needed. Thank you for saving Israel Obama.
    #almostjan20
    All of your Trout are belong to me.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    ...that when Trump hasn't even taken office he is chastised for ruffling China's feathers. Yet Kerry and Obama are giving Israel a big giant f#$* you in their last lame duck 22 days and that is ok?

    Here's hoping Trump moves the embassy to Jerusalem on day 2.

    Why is it that when Al Gore took some donations from some buddhist monks, everyone on the right blew a gasket and yet it is perfectly okay for Israel and Russia to meddle in our domestic affairs.

    Those settlements need to stop.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    creekguy wrote: »
    Obama is still president, and I guess he is telling Bibi how he really feels. "Israel can be Jewish or it can be a democracy, it can't be both" Kerry said.

    On this Kerry and I disagree.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Not exactly, what Kerry said is that if there were a one-state solution, Israel can be Jewish or it can be a democracy, it can't be both. He's correct here in my opinion.

    Oh never mind.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    What good reason is there not to move our embassy to West Jerusalem? Refusing to move it there sends the message that the status of all Jerusalem is yet to be determined. Is that our government's official position? We don't want to move it to East Jerusalem, fine. But why not West Jerusalem?

    Actually I don't think we have an official position on all of Jerusalem.
    The Clinton Parameters proposed a Palestinian state comprising between 94–96% of the West Bank and the entire Gaza Strip. Israel would annex the remaining land, which would include Israeli settlements, containing 80% of the settler population, mainly in major settlement blocs. Israel would cede 1–3% of land to the Palestinians in land swaps to compensate for the annexations. The Palestinian state would have to be contiguous, and annexed areas along with the number of Palestinians affected would be as minimized as possible.

    Jerusalem

    According to the Parameters, Israel would gain sovereignty over the Western Wall. The Palestinians would gain sovereignty and Israel would gain "symbolic ownership" over the rest of the Temple Mount, with both parties sharing sovereignty over the issue of excavations under the Temple Mount. East Jerusalem and its Old City would be divided according to ethnic lines, with Israel gaining sovereignty over Jewish settlements, and the Palestinians gaining sovereignty over Arab neighborhoods.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clinton_Parameters
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    First of all, I could give crap what Shumer thinks about this. He's just another establishment politician.

    Secondly, Breitbart? Give me a break.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    If is is from Breitbart chances are the story is horse ****.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    I don't believe this is a new direction for Obama.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Or the US.

    http://www.cmep.org/content/us-statements-israeli-settlements_short#Clinton
    “The Israeli people also must understand that . . . the settlement enterprise and building bypass roads in the heart of what they already know will one day be part of a Palestinian state is inconsistent with the Oslo commitment that both sides negotiate a compromise.”
    President Bill Clinton’s farewell address to the Middle East – January 7, 2001

    “We write you because we are concerned that unilateral actions, such as expansion of settlements, would be strongly counterproductive to the goal of a negotiated solution and, if carried forward, could halt progress made by the peace process over the last two decades. Such a tragic result would threaten the security of Israel, the Palestinians, friendly Arab states, and undermine U.S. interests in the Middle East.”
    Excerpt from a letter written to H.E. Benjamin Netanyahu on December 14, 1996. The letter was signed by: James A. Baker III (Former Se. of State), Zbigniew Brzezinski (Former National Security Adviser), Frank C. Carlucci (Former National Security Adviser), Lawrence S. Eagleburger (Former Sec. of State), Richard Fairbanks (Former Mid East Peace Negotiator), Brent Scowcroft (Former National Security Adviser), Robert S. Straus (Former Middle East Peace Negotiator), Cyrus R. Vance (Former Sec. of State).
    The George H.W. Bush Administration

    “The United States believes that no party should take unilateral actions that seek to predetermine issues that can only be reached through negotiations. In this regard the United States has opposed, and will continue to oppose, settlement activity in territories occupied in 1967 which remain an obstacle to peace.”
    U.S. Letter of Assurances to the Palestinians on the terms of the Madrid Peace Conference excerpts – October 24, 1991

    “Every time I have gone to Israel in connection with the peace process on each of my trips I have been met with the announcement of new settlement activity. This does violate United States policy. It is the first thing that Arabs--Arab governments—the first thing that Palestinians in the territories—whose situation is really quite desperate—the first thing they raise when we talk to them. I don’t think there is any greater obstacle to peace than settlement activity that continues not only unabated but at an advanced pace.”
    U.S. Secretary of State James Baker III – May 22, 1991

    “Secretary Baker was speaking for this administration, and I strongly support what he said. . .It would make a big contribution to peace if these settlements would stop. That’s what the secretary was trying to say. . .and I’m one hundred percent for him.”
    President George H.W. Bush's response to press questions about Baker’s criticism of Israel’s settlement policy
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,174 Senior Member
    If is is from Breitbart chances are the story is horse ****.

    So Schumer didn't say that?
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,174 Senior Member
    So when is the UN Security Council going to rebuke Russia for its occupation of the Crimea? I'm sure you guys will be calling your Senators and representatives to demand Obama gets this in front of the UN in the next 20 days.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    So Schumer didn't say that?

    I will believe he did when you find the quote from someone other than a fake news source.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • GoldenladleGoldenladle Super Moderator Posts: 3,854 Senior Member
    jbilly wrote: »
    So when is the UN Security Council going to rebuke Russia for its occupation of the Crimea? I'm sure you guys will be calling your Senators and representatives to demand Obama gets this in front of the UN in the next 20 days.


    Since you bring up Russia, why hasn't yahoo gone after Putin for voting for the resolution? I'll bet Donny will set him straight, right?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Moved to Montana, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.

  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,311 Senior Member
    The General Assembly today affirmed its commitment to Ukraine's sovereignty, political independence, unity and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders, underscoring the invalidity of the 16 March referendum held in autonomous Crimea.Mar 27, 2014


    0SMn1xy.png
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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