Three words, RIGHT TO WORK. The teeth of the unions have been pulled by you Free Marketers. But you watch, they are coming back.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
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NZ IndicatorSenior MemberPosts: 9,935Senior Member
My comments about unions have no resemblance to anything you seem to get from it. I wasn't even talking about "unions." I was responding to another persons comments, I brought up the military for a point, but I guess not the one you think I was making.
All I have to say is that no one forces you to be in a union. No jackbooted thugs are going to come to your door. I've worked in places where there was a union, in others there were none, some people were in them, some were not. My wife, forty years in the school system, at each school some were in the union fewer were not. There were a number of instances where those that didn't belong were abused by the district because they had no protection. True, some unions have made bonehead decisions, but "no protection" will not benefit everyone forever.
You have the freedom NOT to join, but what about the "Freedom" to join or form a union? Can't really do that in this State anymore. Is freedom for just one side, or should both have the right to choose for themselves?
You are forced to pay for a lot, you are forced to pay for the environmental degradation going on in this State against your will, now please don't take this wrong, but You'll probably vote for Sean Duffy next year and whoever your State reps are. Who can cause more permanent damage, unions or getting rid of the right to ban sandmining at the local level, a certain stealing of local power, with incredibly bad implications for the citizen, reps and dems a like. Removing environmental regs one by on.e If you are satisfied with the trade offs, I guess I waste my words. Are unions more dangerous to the State than the new law allowing unlimited funding by corporations in elections. Are unions more dangerous to your income than the brain drain that is flooding across our borders and families that don't want to have their kids in our schools. Don't need a license anymore, one year studying coaching and you can teach h.s. math. Didn't they just get rid of the civil service exam? wonder why, no one wants to do those jobs anymore, the qualified people have nearly all left for Minnesota where the State is booming. You know what wisconsin is going to become, Mississippi, our schools are going down hill with the cuts and they had to give a little back because parents in the districts were not pleased and that could cost a lot of republican jobs in the State house.
You and I are forced to pay for this promised utopia, and all you see is more failure, go next door and see how it's supposed to work, where it is working for most, unlike here.
edit. 500 new lost jobs at Ministry healthcare, that takes away the 500 in jobs "created" over the last couple months. It wasn't because of the nurses union, but of thoughtless corporate greed. They expanded all over hoping to compete for patients, there was no need for them and they failed. So over the Walker administration, I bet those 500 jobs were once applauded in the job creation stats, so with the loss I guess the playing field has flipped..a 1000 person job loss statistically.
It was you who stated we need unions for balance. My response to that was my opinion of unions and I don't believe we need them for any sort of perceived balance.
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NZ IndicatorSenior MemberPosts: 9,935Senior Member
Three words, RIGHT TO WORK. The teeth of the unions have been pulled by you Free Marketers. But you watch, they are coming back.
Why should I have to PAY dues to work? As I stated before...If the Unions are so wonderful let them sell everyone on the benefit of belonging to the Union. They won't be making a come back. If anything they'll keep declining.
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fishingcomicSenior MemberPosts: 23,290Senior Member
You shouldn't but then you shouldn't get the same wages and benefits of those that do pay. You get half.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
Why should I have to PAY dues to work? As I stated before...If the Unions are so wonderful let them sell everyone on the benefit of belonging to the Union. They won't be making a come back. If anything they'll keep declining.
Why would think you should be able to work at a job whose wages and benefits have been negotiated by a union and not pay dues. It seems you're being a bit greedy or selfish here.
Mike
My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
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fishingcomicSenior MemberPosts: 23,290Senior Member
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
It's not evil Republicans or the Koch's. It's economics.
Steven, you are forgetting one important factor. Many worker bees themselves are now anti-union. Imagine that, people that DIRECTLY BENEFIT from their union, whether they pay dues or not, are the same ones who verbally bash unions and vote for politicians who vow to weaken unions!
Who do they think fights for the preservation of their good pay and benefits?
89% of worker bees aren't in unions. So nobody is fighting for them.
Instead they're looking at the cost of unions to them whether that be through higher prices or higher taxes.
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fishingcomicSenior MemberPosts: 23,290Senior Member
Do you think that might be a factor in the fact that all of the increases in productivity are going to the the upper 1%?
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
You shouldn't but then you shouldn't get the same wages and benefits of those that do pay. You get half.
Why half?
A majority of union work is unskilled labor. Most anyone with a high school diploma can walk into GM and get a job on the floor and join the UAW. But not everyone can leave a union/factory job and do the job of someone that has a college degree or other formal training in a certain field. What kind of dream world is this that you live in where skilled labor gets half of unskilled labor?
If I were to take on union job in my area, I would cut my salary and benefits in half. No thanks. I'll stay non union.
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NZ IndicatorSenior MemberPosts: 9,935Senior Member
Why would think you should be able to work at a job whose wages and benefits have been negotiated by a union and not pay dues. It seems you're being a bit greedy or selfish here.
Mike
Because I would rather not work for a union and have my wages and benefits based on my performance. Not what someone negotiated for me. I don't like the idea that the guy that sloughs off gets the same raise as the guy that busts his ****.
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fishingcomicSenior MemberPosts: 23,290Senior Member
Because that is where it probably was when the union started negotiating for you. Oh it is UAW, then you 25 cents an hour.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
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fishingcomicSenior MemberPosts: 23,290Senior Member
Because I would rather not work for a union and have my wages and benefits based on my performance. Not what someone negotiated for me. I don't like the idea that the guy that sloughs off gets the same raise as the guy that busts his ****.
A factory job has two levels of performance, adequate or fired.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
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NZ IndicatorSenior MemberPosts: 9,935Senior Member
What rights need be protected? I've never worked a union job and never felt that I had "rights" that needed protection. If you show up to work, do the job you are supposed to do and perform it well why do you need protection?
I've both seen and heard about bad workers not getting fired because of union protection. Your mileage may vary.
In my union days, I was involved in situations where people were fired and/or disciplined. Their union "protection" consisted of ensuring a fair and unbiased hearing. So,yup, my mileage does vary..
Mike
My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
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fishingcomicSenior MemberPosts: 23,290Senior Member
Lol. Not the way it works. Unions are great at protecting the bad worker.
What does a bad worker look like in an assembly line? Are the cars piling up?
For your information bad workers get protected in management all the time without a union. I know I have worked with them. Perhaps some of the people you work with, work with one.
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
What does a bad worker look like in an assembly line?
Refuses to do the job on the line because of some reason or other. Then production comes to a halt until it's resolved. I personally witnessed this happen.
Why am I guessing the some reason or other is a safety issue?
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
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NZ IndicatorSenior MemberPosts: 9,935Senior Member
And that is not a safety issue? What happened to the employee?
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
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NZ IndicatorSenior MemberPosts: 9,935Senior Member
At my job, every person has the power to shut down the work if one perceives a safety issue. And yes, someone's hands being hurt by the work qualifies as a safety issue.
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Replies
It was you who stated we need unions for balance. My response to that was my opinion of unions and I don't believe we need them for any sort of perceived balance.
Why should I have to PAY dues to work? As I stated before...If the Unions are so wonderful let them sell everyone on the benefit of belonging to the Union. They won't be making a come back. If anything they'll keep declining.
Why would think you should be able to work at a job whose wages and benefits have been negotiated by a union and not pay dues. It seems you're being a bit greedy or selfish here.
Mike
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/business/nlrb-holds-mcdonalds-not-just-franchisees-liable-for-worker-treatment.html
Steven, you are forgetting one important factor. Many worker bees themselves are now anti-union. Imagine that, people that DIRECTLY BENEFIT from their union, whether they pay dues or not, are the same ones who verbally bash unions and vote for politicians who vow to weaken unions!
Who do they think fights for the preservation of their good pay and benefits?
89% of worker bees aren't in unions. So nobody is fighting for them.
Instead they're looking at the cost of unions to them whether that be through higher prices or higher taxes.
We have a winner! I'm not referencing you, Joe; just making a generalization.
Why half?
A majority of union work is unskilled labor. Most anyone with a high school diploma can walk into GM and get a job on the floor and join the UAW. But not everyone can leave a union/factory job and do the job of someone that has a college degree or other formal training in a certain field. What kind of dream world is this that you live in where skilled labor gets half of unskilled labor?
If I were to take on union job in my area, I would cut my salary and benefits in half. No thanks. I'll stay non union.
Because I would rather not work for a union and have my wages and benefits based on my performance. Not what someone negotiated for me. I don't like the idea that the guy that sloughs off gets the same raise as the guy that busts his ****.
A factory job has two levels of performance, adequate or fired.
Lol. Not the way it works. Unions are great at protecting the bad worker.
Actually a union is good at protecting workers rights. A bad worker can still be fired for the proper reasons..
Mike
I've both seen and heard about bad workers not getting fired because of union protection. Your mileage may vary.
Mike
What does a bad worker look like in an assembly line? Are the cars piling up?
For your information bad workers get protected in management all the time without a union. I know I have worked with them. Perhaps some of the people you work with, work with one.
Thanks for nothing Pio/Obama.
Refuses to do the job on the line because of some reason or other. Then production comes to a halt until it's resolved. I personally witnessed this happen.
Absolutely.
The only factor? No. The main factor? Probably not.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
geee... I wonder why we outsource?
does this include blisters from trying to row a jon boat faster than the speed of sound?
Well the good news is we still have the stupids doing our mining. Hopefully they'll all die under an avalanche of tailings.