Paul Ryan

WetdogWetdog Senior MemberPosts: 5,149 Senior Member
Demands to have his weekends off so he can spend time with his family, but he's against paid family leave.

these guys are so much fun
I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
«13

Replies

  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,023 Senior Member
    Wetdog wrote: »
    Demands to have his weekends off so he can spend time with his family, but he's against paid family leave.

    these guys are so much fun

    4 weeks of paid paternity leave for federal employees is different than wanting unpaid weekends off no?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    He works about 23 days a year.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    haha, you are missing the point.

    First of all the "experiment" over the pond with shorter work weeks and paid family leave has led to greater productivity, hence greater wealth generated per hour. Its all so funny how we stick to the failed because that's all we've known, rather than what is working in this modern era. It's not the 1800s anymore.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    He works about 23 days a year.

    And he collect Cadillac heath care and a sweet pension, ...for "23 days" a year...love it.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,023 Senior Member
    I'm in favor of a part time congress. Less likely to screw things up more than they already have.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    I'm in favor of a part time congress. Less likely to screw things up more than they already have.

    But they don't do anything and they are getting full time pay.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,023 Senior Member
    But they don't do anything and they are getting full time pay.
    Perks of being a federal government employee.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,816 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Perks of being a federal government employee.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    Yes, there are perks; I get my automatic pay raise next month!!! Of course, there sure as **** won't be any COLA raise at the end of the year. Also, I do give my job an honest effort. Unfortunately there are some who don't care and they still get the automatic pay raises too. If they can live with themselves, I guess that's on them.

    My wife was recently doing some reading on the benefits of the Euro-style work week. I found it interesting. To an atheist like me, this whole Protestant work-ethic **** sucks balls.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Hey Shawn, do you federal employees get to spend as much time playing on the internet as those in the private sector? haha
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,816 Senior Member
    He, he, that's funny!
    Probably about the same. I'm at work right now! However, my job is a bit weird in that if there is no work that comes to me, there isn't much to do. On the flip side of that, if it gets ****-kicking busy (I'm talking head explosion busy) there is nothing you can do but keep up as failure is not an option. So, I essentially get paid in full for the 10% of the time in which the **** hits the fan and we keep everything safe and on time.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    You are in need of a four day workweek...like everyone else. If you are going to waste time at work because there isn't any work, there are only two choices, fire a whole bunch of people, or let them "waste" that time at home where they become happier and better and more productive employees. Like I said somewhere else, this isn't the 1800s anymore, the present model is antiquated.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,023 Senior Member
    Unfortunately there are some who don't care and they still get the automatic pay raises too.

    One reason I'm not a fan of unions. Raises are based on what's negotiated, not how well or poor a person performs.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Unfortunately there are some who don't care and they still get the automatic pay raises too. If they can live with themselves, I guess that's on them.

    Don't tell Joe, but this happens with non-union jobs also. Not to mention annual bonuses.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 2,957 Senior Member
    Unfortunately there are some who don't care and they still get the automatic pay raises too. If they can live with themselves, I guess that's on them.
    Don't tell Joe, but this happens with non-union jobs also. Not to mention annual bonuses.

    This is a taboo subject. That NEVER happens with non union jobs. It's just not possible.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie just look at the flowers.
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    I suppose you guys get all upset that the military,the Army anyway, gives auto promotion and the "pay grade" increase on a schedule. **** unions. what a joke anyway, there aren't really any unions anymore, at least non with the power and funds they once had, which in truth is necessary for balance. But few republicans understand the importance of balance in keeping our excesses to a minimum. They are not at a minimum anymore.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    Unfortunately there are some who don't care and they still get the automatic pay raises too. If they can live with themselves, I guess that's on them.



    This is a taboo subject. That NEVER happens with non union jobs. It's just not possible.

    Okay that is just ignorant. I have worked in corporate America and can attest to its ignorance. Hell corporations give multi-million dollar payouts to people they fire. Talk about lack of incentive.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 10,023 Senior Member
    Wetdog wrote: »
    I suppose you guys get all upset that the military,the Army anyway, gives auto promotion and the "pay grade" increase on a schedule. **** unions. what a joke anyway, there aren't really any unions anymore, at least non with the power and funds they once had, which in truth is necessary for balance. But few republicans understand the importance of balance in keeping our excesses to a minimum. They are not at a minimum anymore.


    At one time unions were an extremely important component during a pretty bleak period for workers in this country. I can see why they were formed and some of the benefits that workers have today are a result of unions. While the unions initially served a purpose in the early 20th Century, they've become more of an extra seat cushion in recent decades in my opinion. While I don't belong to a union, what I have a problem with is compulsory membership and using my dues for a political agenda that I don't align with. You wanna join/form a union at your work place? Go right the f**k ahead. You wanna force me to join and pay dues as a condition of my employment in what ever industry I work in? Go f**k yourself.

    Odds are that a person chooses to seek employment with a company because they found the pay and compensation acceptable. If you don't want to pay for representation, to insure and negotiate your pay and benefits, you would simply choose not to even apply to such a company. If my work ethic and personal accountability do not meet and/or exceed the expectations of the company who hired me, I am either a satisfactory employee or one who does not need to be working there.

    The way I see it...If the Unions are so wonderful let them sell everyone on the benefit of belonging to the Union. I can't say that I know many family members or friends that want to board that train.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    The decline of union membership has seen a parallel decline in the middle class and an increase in wealth disparity this is not a coincidence.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    Go right the f**k ahead. You wanna force me to join and pay dues as a condition of my employment in what ever industry I work in? Go f**k yourself.

    But you want to benefit from those wages and benefits they negotiate? You go f8ck yourself, and take half.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    The decline of union membership has seen a parallel decline in the middle class and an increase in wealth disparity this is not a coincidence.

    simple truths

    through killing unions like here in wisKochsin, or sending their jobs overseas. All the power and nearly all the money is theirs and still some complain about unions, they beat them, why can't they ever be satisfied?
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • The decline of union membership has seen a parallel decline in the middle class and an increase in wealth disparity this is not a coincidence.

    True, no coincidence.
    But is it correlation or causation?
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Joe K. wrote: »
    At one time unions were an extremely important component during a pretty bleak period for workers in this country. I can see why they were formed and some of the benefits that workers have today are a result of unions. While the unions initially served a purpose in the early 20th Century, they've become more of an extra seat cushion in recent decades in my opinion. While I don't belong to a union, what I have a problem with is compulsory membership and using my dues for a political agenda that I don't align with. You wanna join/form a union at your work place? Go right the f**k ahead. You wanna force me to join and pay dues as a condition of my employment in what ever industry I work in? Go f**k yourself.

    Odds are that a person chooses to seek employment with a company because they found the pay and compensation acceptable. If you don't want to pay for representation, to insure and negotiate your pay and benefits, you would simply choose not to even apply to such a company. If my work ethic and personal accountability do not meet and/or exceed the expectations of the company who hired me, I am either a satisfactory employee or one who does not need to be working there.

    The way I see it...If the Unions are so wonderful let them sell everyone on the benefit of belonging to the Union. I can't say that I know many family members or friends that want to board that train.

    My comments about unions have no resemblance to anything you seem to get from it. I wasn't even talking about "unions." I was responding to another persons comments, I brought up the military for a point, but I guess not the one you think I was making.

    All I have to say is that no one forces you to be in a union. No jackbooted thugs are going to come to your door. I've worked in places where there was a union, in others there were none, some people were in them, some were not. My wife, forty years in the school system, at each school some were in the union fewer were not. There were a number of instances where those that didn't belong were abused by the district because they had no protection. True, some unions have made bonehead decisions, but "no protection" will not benefit everyone forever.

    You have the freedom NOT to join, but what about the "Freedom" to join or form a union? Can't really do that in this State anymore. Is freedom for just one side, or should both have the right to choose for themselves?

    You are forced to pay for a lot, you are forced to pay for the environmental degradation going on in this State against your will, now please don't take this wrong, but You'll probably vote for Sean Duffy next year and whoever your State reps are. Who can cause more permanent damage, unions or getting rid of the right to ban sandmining at the local level, a certain stealing of local power, with incredibly bad implications for the citizen, reps and dems a like. Removing environmental regs one by on.e If you are satisfied with the trade offs, I guess I waste my words. Are unions more dangerous to the State than the new law allowing unlimited funding by corporations in elections. Are unions more dangerous to your income than the brain drain that is flooding across our borders and families that don't want to have their kids in our schools. Don't need a license anymore, one year studying coaching and you can teach h.s. math. Didn't they just get rid of the civil service exam? wonder why, no one wants to do those jobs anymore, the qualified people have nearly all left for Minnesota where the State is booming. You know what wisconsin is going to become, Mississippi, our schools are going down hill with the cuts and they had to give a little back because parents in the districts were not pleased and that could cost a lot of republican jobs in the State house.

    You and I are forced to pay for this promised utopia, and all you see is more failure, go next door and see how it's supposed to work, where it is working for most, unlike here.



    edit. 500 new lost jobs at Ministry healthcare, that takes away the 500 in jobs "created" over the last couple months. It wasn't because of the nurses union, but of thoughtless corporate greed. They expanded all over hoping to compete for patients, there was no need for them and they failed. So over the Walker administration, I bet those 500 jobs were once applauded in the job creation stats, so with the loss I guess the playing field has flipped..a 1000 person job loss statistically.
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    Mezzi mezzi

    It would be helpful if trade agreements had greater protections for labor.

    The other night I was doing an inventory at a Target store. Now my Aunt was a seamstress represented by a strong labor union. Through that union she was able to make a decent living that along with my Uncle also a union employee was able to put both their children through college and obtain a good pension. Now I noticed that none of those items I was inventorying were made in the USA. Now I would have no problem with this if those people making those garments were also making a decent living. But they are not, they are living well below the poverty line making pennies a day. Even without unions, those jobs would go to those countries because of the availability of nearly slave labor. Your solution would be to let the market sort it out and have American laborers making pennies a day. Not to mention working in an unsafe work environment while their employers are polluting our rivers and air.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,891 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    True, no coincidence.
    But is it correlation or causation?

    The relationship is causal, I'm fairly certain. With strong unions the rank and file's share of the benefits of increased productivity most likely would have kept them in the "middle class", whatever that might be.

    BTW - "Automatic promotions" in the military are not what critics believe. As in many corporations, you are promoted after x period of time IF you at least meet minimum acceptable standards. If not you will not be promoted (and could be "selected out") but if you greatly exceed the norms (or are in the right place at the right time) you will be promoted sooner.

    In the officer corps, as with Foreign Service officers you are up against time-in-class. Get promoted within a certain number of years - it varies by grade - or retire honorably with a pension based on years of service.

    When I retired at the age of 51, it was not because I wanted to, but because I was an FS1 - equivalent to a Colonel or GS15 - who did not make it to the Senior Foreign Service - flag grade or the SES - in the allowed six or seven years.

    How many folks in the private sector must deal with that?
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    Sometimes in the private sector people are promoted just to get them out of the way.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • George KGeorge K Super Moderator Posts: 9,891 Senior Member
    Sometimes in the private sector people are promoted just to get them out of the way.


    "Getting kicked upstairs" was what it was called when I worked in corporate NYC in the 1960s.
    Keep your stinkin' government hands off my Medicare.
  • Kind of hard to argue that a Japanese auto worker is getting paid pennies a day.

    I realize nobody accepts this, but unions are just attempts to set prices. There's no economic difference between the UAW and U.S. Steel circa 1900.
    All such attempts, particularly if not protected by law, are doomed to failure. Market forces look to benefit or escape from the higher price, eventually leading to the end of the union or monopoly.

    Anybody remember the Chinese trying to monopolize the rare earth minerals market? Despite the Chinese cornering 90% of the market, the price of rare earth minerals has dropped 80% since 2010.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,762 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    I realize nobody accepts this, but unions are just attempts to set prices. There's no economic difference between the UAW and U.S. Steel circa 1900.
    All such attempts, particularly if not protected by law, are doomed to failure. Market forces look to benefit or escape from the higher price, eventually leading to the end of the union or monopoly.

    Funny how in the history of this country, it never worked out that way. Market forces gave us employees being shot for asking for higher wages and monopolies.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    George K wrote: »
    The relationship is causal, I'm fairly certain. With strong unions the rank and file's share of the benefits of increased productivity most likely would have kept them in the "middle class", whatever that might be.

    BTW - "Automatic promotions" in the military are not what critics believe. As in many corporations, you are promoted after x period of time IF you at least meet minimum acceptable standards. If not you will not be promoted (and could be "selected out") but if you greatly exceed the norms (or are in the right place at the right time) you will be promoted sooner.

    In the officer corps, as with Foreign Service officers you are up against time-in-class. Get promoted within a certain number of years - it varies by grade - or retire honorably with a pension based on years of service.

    When I retired at the age of 51, it was not because I wanted to, but because I was an FS1 - equivalent to a Colonel or GS15 - who did not make it to the Senior Foreign Service - flag grade or the SES - in the allowed six or seven years.

    How many folks in the private sector must deal with that?

    correct, just making a point not a criticism of the military. I could have some criticism about other aspects, but not that. That's how it's always worked since you couldn't buy your rank anymore. ha
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • Funny how in the history of this country, it never worked out that way. Market forces gave us employees being shot for asking for higher wages and monopolies.

    And that doesn't happen today and unions still decline.

    Once upon a time, there was a set of circumstances in which unions could flourish. That hasn't been the case in decades.

    It's not evil Republicans or the Koch's. It's economics.

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