Canadians Don't Learn

13

Replies

  • The price hikes in the ACA market have been better than projections.

    I would challenge this assertion.

    I'm not arguing to dump it. It's here to stay. All I'm doing is point out the latest example of good intentions leading to bad outcomes.

    Co-ops = good intention
    $1 billion lost = bad outcome.
  • If I lost my house because of a poisoned well and my children had cancer from drinking from that well, a job wouldn't matter.

    And if you live on the Southwest Side of Chiacago and don't have a job, would you care that some white guy couldn't fish? Of course you wouldn't.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    No but I might care that some kid got cancer because of fracking. Don't you?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Of course Chris. But I also value his father having a job and maybe the kid doesn't get cancer.


    Everybody value air vs. jobs differently Chris. There's no right or wrong.

    I don't know the answer of which is more important. So in answer to Shawn, I don't reconcile it. It's just not an important factor in my voting.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    I am sorry but there is a wrong in valuing money over human life. How does the kid not get cancer from drinking water that has been poisoned by a corporation by his father having a job?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • How do you know the water will be poisoned? You're automatically going to the worst outcome.

    Should a small trout stream be protected or would it be better to put a factory there employing 100 people? Who the **** knows? I sure don't.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    Because it has been poisoned on numerous occasions.

    Are you suggesting that next to a trout stream is the only possible location? I don't know if you are aware of this, but water runs down hill. Eventually that becomes drinking water.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    If only there was money in cleaning the environment up.

    (looks at business card)

    Well well well... Look what we have here.
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Knock knock.

    Who's there?

    Opportunity..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,943 Senior Member
    Shawn C. wrote: »
    Nice rainbow, Joe!!!

    Serious question, Steven: How are you going to reconcile your future diminished fishing/outdoor experiences (and it will happen/is happening) with your political beliefs? Your party, in a general sense, is not just ambivalent on environmental issues, they are hostile to environmental causes. Perhaps Joe could chime in as well.
    Thanks!

    I hate our governor and what he has done to our DNR.
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,943 Senior Member
    And insurance rates were increasing at double digit rates for years long before the ACA.

    Were they increasing 49%?

    http://www.startribune.com/major-hikes-expected-as-state-releases-2016-insurance-rates/330216491/
  • Shawn C.Shawn C. Senior Member Posts: 6,585 Senior Member
    Joe and Steven,
    Thanks for your answers.

    As for my reconciliation of the two? Although I ultimately come down on the side of environmental protections, who says we cannot have a robust economy as well as a paying attention to and caring for the environment? Like Chris said, you don't have to build the factory right next to the trout stream. I really think we can have the best of both worlds, within reason, of course.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • NZ IndicatorNZ Indicator Senior Member Posts: 9,943 Senior Member

    From the Rate Summary...

    The final rate increases for 2016 plans offered by companies in Minnesota’s individual market range from 14 percent to 49 percent. Each insurance company’s final average rate increase is listed in the table on page 7



    Only health plans that have proposed rate increases of ten percent or more are listed on the rate review tool, and Medica did not show up on the list; presumably their initial rate filing was for an increase of less than ten percent. But ultimately regulators increased their premium for 14 to 15 percent over the 2015 rates. Regulators also finalized higher-than-requested rates for Health Partners and UCare. But they approved slightly lower-than-requested rates for Blue Plus and Blue Cross Blue Shield of Minnesota. Overall, for plans sold within MNsure, the weighted average rate increase for 2016 is about 38.5 percent.

    In general, the carriers cited higher-than-expected claims costs over the past year, along with the coming phase-out of the ACA’s reinsurance program as justification for their 2016 rate requests.

    https://www.healthinsurance.org/minnesota-state-health-insurance-exchange/
  • Because it has been poisoned on numerous occasions.

    Are you suggesting that next to a trout stream is the only possible location? I don't know if you are aware of this, but water runs down hill. Eventually that becomes drinking water.

    Were you being intentionally obtuse? It's just an example. Suppose it was the only possible location.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    Then it is better not to poison the drinking water down stream.

    GkDm75h.jpg?2
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    5
    mn.gov/commerce
    The small group rate increases for 2016 continue a recent trend in which these rates are increasing much more slowly compared to several years ago, when they were growing at 7 -10 percent annually. As a result, small businesses in Minnesota are experiencing price consistency in their employee health coverage that allows for improved year-to-year business planning and financial stability.

    Minnesota Small Group Health Insurance Policies 2016 Average Rate Changes
    Company Name......................................Final Average Rate Change
    Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Minnesota................ -4.8%
    Blue Plus......................................................... +1.4%
    Federated Mutual Insurance Company.................. -12.6%
    Gundersen Health Plan Minnesota...........................+5.0%
    HealthPartners, Inc..............................................+5.2%
    HealthPartners Insurance Company.........................+5.6%
    Medica Insurance Company....................................+4.5%
    PreferredOne Community Health Plan........................+3.0%
    PreferredOne Insurance Company.............................+5.0%
    Sanford Health Plan...............................................-3.4%


    Fewer than six percent of all Minnesotans purchase their health insurance on the individual market – either through MNsure or directly from insurance companies or broker/agents
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • Then it is better not to poison the drinking water down stream.

    And if it doesn't, but simply means you won't get to fish?
    Maybe they expand housing developments which efs up access?

    You keep on going straight to the reductio ad absurdum.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    Because you keep being absurd. There are ways to operate businesses that do not pollute and not all businesses are appropriate for all areas. I say weigh the risk and if there is any risk of poisoning water and giving children cancer, then no job is worth that. Losing access to private property rights is not same same as pollution. Are you a Pebble Mine fan?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • To suggest that we can continue to grow without putting natural resources at risk is absurd.
    To suggest that there isn't a trade-off and sometime the natural resource user should lose is absurd.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    To suggest that cancer is an acceptable risk is absurd.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • ricinusricinus Senior Member Posts: 6,214 Senior Member
    Justin Trudeau's nickname from the right wing is Shiny Pony. This had to be said..

    Mike
    My new goal in life is to become an Alter Kaker...
  • CuddyCuddy Senior Member Posts: 344 Senior Member
    Its true.
    I'm Canadian and I haven't learned anything over the past 9 pages.
  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    what the hell?!?... post a picture of a trailer park boy and a Newfie falls out of a tree!
  • CuddyCuddy Senior Member Posts: 344 Senior Member
    I have Bubbles and maple syrup Google alerts.
  • Green Mt BoyGreen Mt Boy Senior Member Posts: 913 Senior Member
    We still haven't adequately discussed how hot Mrs. Trudeau is.

    search?q=justin+trudeau+wife&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CG0Q7AlqFQoTCPLJwcOo2cgCFcFcPgodpGMJlg&biw=1680&bih=890#imgrc=oiLA9PTEc7TkpM%3A
  • To suggest that cancer is an acceptable risk is absurd.

    Again, reductio ad absurdum
  • WetdogWetdog Senior Member Posts: 5,149 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    To suggest that we can continue to grow without putting natural resources at risk is absurd.
    To suggest that there isn't a trade-off and sometime the natural resource user should lose is absurd.

    There are always trade offs. The resources already been put at risk and frankly we can't push it anymore than we have. Change has to take place or all your "growth" will lead to some pretty bad things. Oil and gas? a stroll down to the pits. Scotland I understand will shortly be, or already energy independent. Since we are far richer in cash and resources, how could they do it and why can't we? The status quo can't be messed with right? someone could lose some bucks...but others gain them.

    And frankly, oil and gas are the least of our problems, it's going to be all about water. Any economic answers for that?
    I find the assault on free thought disturbing,
    I find the willingness to give it up frightening.
  • Wetdog wrote: »
    There are always trade offs. The resources already been put at risk and frankly we can't push it anymore than we have.

    Someday, we may not have choice.

    Wetdog wrote: »
    it's going to be all about water. Any economic answers for that?

    I don't know what the answer will be, but when the market price of water gets high enough, there will be a response. Remember peak oil?
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 23,317 Senior Member
    Steven wrote: »
    Again, reductio ad absurdum

    No you are claiming that when weighing the risk, economics takes a front seat. I say no. You're the one that keeps talking about trout streams. I have been consistently talking about drinking water.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan

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