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Neocons - an existential threat......

EdBEdB Senior MemberPosts: 3,084 Senior Member
....to the U.S. Their criminal foreign policy is still the policy of the U.S.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/09/15/are-neocons-an-existential-threat/

Exclusive: Despite a record of unprecedented error, American neocons remain the dominant foreign policy force in Official Washington, demanding more “regime change” in the Middle East and a new Cold War that could heat up and end all life on the planet, writes Robert Parry.

By Robert Parry

The neoconservatives arguably have damaged American national interests more than any group in modern history. They have done more harm than the marginal Communists pursued by Sen. Joe McCarthy in the 1950s, more than the Yippies of the 1960s, more than Richard Nixon’s Watergate burglars in the 1970s or the Iran-Contra conspirators in the 1980s.

The neocons have plunged the U.S. government into extraordinarily ill-considered wars wasting trillions of dollars, killing hundreds of thousands if not millions of people, and destabilizing large swaths of the planet including the Middle East, much of Africa and now Europe. Those costs include a swelling hatred against America and a deformed U.S. foreign policy elite that is no longer capable of formulating coherent strategies.

Replies

  • HextallHextall Senior Member Posts: 9,520 Senior Member
    Ed, congrats to getting to 2,300 posts.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Seems to me the Middle East was destabilized thousands of years ago, you can't blame us for that one. Of course, we haven't helped a hell of a lot either. To say we've destabilized Europe is ludicrous Ed, it's millions of undocumented **** refugees.
    Congratulations to Hextall on 7003 posts.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,084 Senior Member
    It's not ludicrous, the illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and the U.S. policy of regime change in Syria caused the creation of ISIS which caused the breakup of Iraq and Syria and Lybia which caused the refugees that are flooding Europe and threaten to destabilize European countries.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    US Policy of regime change? Did we start the Syrian civil war? Are you nuts?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,084 Senior Member
    We had a hand in it, we supported the original rebels in Syria.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/11/neocons-revive-syria-regime-change-plan/

    On the surface, Obama’s extraordinary plan to ignore Syrian sovereignty and attack across the border has been viewed as a unilateral U.S. action to strike at the terrorist Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), but it could easily evolve into a renewed effort to overthrow Bashar al-Assad’s government, ironically one of ISIS’s principal goals.

    ISIS began as part of the Sunni resistance to George W. Bush’s invasion of Iraq which had elevated Iraq’s Shiite majority to power. Then known as “al-Qaeda in Iraq,” the terrorist group stoked a sectarian war by slaughtering Shiites and bombing their mosques.

    Changing its name to ISIS, the group shifted to Syria where it joined with U.S.-backed rebels seeking to overthrow Assad’s regime which was dominated by Alawites, a branch of Shiite Islam.

    That would get the neocons back on their original track of forcing “regime change” in countries seen as hostile to Israel. The first target was Iraq with Syria and Iran to follow. The goal was to deprive Israel’s close-in enemies, Lebanon’s Hezbollah and Palestine’s Hamas, of crucial support. The neocon vision got knocked off track when Bush’s Iraq War derailed and the American people balked at the idea of extending the conflict to Syria and Iran.

    But the neocons never gave up on their vision. They simply kept at it, clinging to key positions inside Official Washington and recruiting “liberal interventionists” to the “regime change” cause. The neocons remained focused on Syria and Iran with hopes of getting U.S. bombing campaigns going against both countries.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Actually we didn't and that kind of pissed off the ambassador to Syria at the time. If anything our lack of involvement lead to this mess.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obama-at-war/
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,084 Senior Member
    Actually we didn't and that kind of pissed off the ambassador to Syria at the time. If anything our lack of involvement lead to this mess.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obama-at-war/

    It's not our lack of involvement, it's our failed involvement. We trained rebels in Jordan and armed various factions in Syria who eventually joined ISIS. Now we're bombing Syria with drones and fighters stationed in Turkey. This tactic will also fail unless we do what the neocons want and invade Syria and then Iran. Those insane neocons will get us into WWiii if we let them.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    It's not our lack of involvement, it's our failed involvement. We trained rebels in Jordan and armed various factions in Syria who eventually joined ISIS. Now we're bombing Syria with drones and fighters stationed in Turkey. This tactic will also fail unless we do what the neocons want and invade Syria and then Iran. Those insane neocons will get us into WWiii if we let them.

    When did we do this?
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,084 Senior Member
    When did we do this?

    http://mobile.wnd.com/2014/06/officials-u-s-trained-isis-at-secret-base-in-jordan/

    BLOWBACK! U.S. TRAINED ISLAMISTS WHO JOINED ISIS
    Secret Jordan base was site of covert aid to insurgents targeting Assad
    Published: 06/17/2014 at http://mobile.wnd.com/files/2014/06/ArmyTrainers.jpg


    Army trainers
    [EDITOR'S NOTE: Since publication, this story has been corrected to clarify that the fighters trained in Jordan became members of the ISIS after their training.]

    JERUSALEM – Syrian rebels who would later join the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIS, were trained in 2012 by U.S. instructors working at a secret base in Jordan, according to informed Jordanian officials.

    The officials said dozens of future ISIS members were trained at the time as part of covert aid to the insurgents targeting the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Syria. The officials said the training was not meant to be used for any future campaign in Iraq.

    The Jordanian officials said all ISIS members who received U.S. training to fight in Syria were first vetted for any links to extremist groups like al-Qaida.

    In February 2012, WND was first to report the U.S., Turkey and Jordan were running a training base for the Syrian rebels in the Jordanian town of Safawi in the country’s northern desert region.

    That report has since been corroborated by numerous other media accounts.

    Last March, the German weekly Der Spiegel reported Americans were training Syrian rebels in Jordan.

    Quoting what it said were training participants and organizers, Der Spiegel reported it was not clear whether the Americans worked for private firms or were with the U.S. Army, but the magazine said some organizers wore uniforms. The training in Jordan reportedly focused on use of anti-tank weaponry.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Sorry but World Net Daily is a neocon conspiracy theorist source that believes that Obama is a secret Muslim bent on plunging America into communism. They are not a trust worthy source. Next you will be telling us about the lizard people.

    Watch the video, it did not happen.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 6,148 Senior Member
    Sorry but World Net Daily is a neocon conspiracy theorist source that believes that Obama is a secret Muslim bent on plunging America into communism. They are not a trust worthy source. Next you will be telling us about the lizard people.
    'Comic has a point. The only time World Net Daily will decry something the US does is if it runs down the Democrats. If we had a Republican administration who did this WND would talk about their bravery, gallantry, and who wonder they were and proof that Islam is a religion of peace.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,084 Senior Member
    Sorry but World Net Daily is a neocon conspiracy theorist source that believes that Obama is a secret Muslim bent on plunging America into communism. They are not a trust worthy source. Next you will be telling us about the lizard people.

    Watch the video, it did not happen.

    How about the AP, CBS, The Guardian, Al Jazeera, and Der Spiegel among the sources that confirm the U.S. trained rebels to overthrow Assad. Open your eyes, Comic.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ap-us-training-syria-rebels-in-jordan/

    How about CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/15/world/meast/syria-civil-war/

    Syrian rebels claim that hundreds of their fighters are being given sophisticated-weapons training organized and authorized by the United States at a camp in Jordan.

    But he said that 300 fighters had already completed the course and crossed the border into Syria on Thursday.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    How about the AP, CBS, The Guardian, Al Jazeera, and Der Spiegel among the sources that confirm the U.S. trained rebels to overthrow Assad. Open your eyes, Comic.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ap-us-training-syria-rebels-in-jordan/

    How about CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/15/world/meast/syria-civil-war/

    Syrian rebels claim that hundreds of their fighters are being given sophisticated-weapons training organized and authorized by the United States at a camp in Jordan.

    But he said that 300 fighters had already completed the course and crossed the border into Syria on Thursday.

    This began in 2013. The civil war started in 2011. So no we did not start the war in Syria. This was not part of a policy of regime change. My eyes are open. Remove the sand from yours.

    BTW neither of the legitimate sources are saying they became members of ISIS. They remained members of the secular opposition.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    There are no trustworthy, legitimate news sources. They all have an editorial slant.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,963 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Open your eyes, Comic.


    Ed...thank you.
    You just gave me a new signature line. ;)
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    Watch the video and point out the slant.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Which video was that again? C'mon Chris, you know they all present the news, of lack thereof, in a way that furthers their agendas. Fox may choose not to air a segment that is favorable to Obama, MSNBC may not cover something favorable to a Kasich or Carson.
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,084 Senior Member
    This began in 2013. The civil war started in 2011. So no we did not start the war in Syria. This was not part of a policy of regime change. My eyes are open. Remove the sand from yours.

    BTW neither of the legitimate sources are saying they became members of ISIS. They remained members of the secular opposition.

    Starting in 2011, the U.S. supplied arms to Syrian rebels through Al Qaeda in Libya.

    http://stopwar.org.uk/news/countries-sending-most-arms-to-syria-have-accepted-fewest-of-refugees-they-ve-helped-create

    Yet, Obama also bears a large responsibility for the tragedy in Syria. The US has been spending nearly $1 billion a year in covert military assistance for rebel groups in Syria, as well as spending $10 million a day on 6,550 airstrikes on ISIS, with 37% of those strikes taking place in Syria.

    According to a 2015 report from the Congressional Research Service, the U.S. has, since 2011, spent an estimated $7.7 billion in Syria in combined military and “humanitarian” aid — much of which ends up in the hands of ISIS.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/its-dishonest-to-talk-about-benghazi-without-talking-about-the-syrian-war.html

    In 2011, Ambassador Stevens was appointed to be the Obama administration’s liaison with the “budding Libyan opposition,” according to ABC News. Stevens and the State Department worked directly with Abdelhakim Belhadj of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. Belhadj has direct connections to al-Qaeda.

    CNN, the Telegraph, the Washington Times, and many other mainstream sources confirm that Al Qaeda terrorists from Libya have since flooded into Syria to fight the Assad regime.

    Mainstream sources also confirm that the Syrian opposition is largely comprised of Al Qaeda terrorists. (Indeed, the New York Times reported last week that virtually all of the rebel fighters are Al Qaeda terrorists.)

    The U.S. has been arming the Syrian opposition since 2006. The post-Gaddafi Libyan government is also itself a top funder and arms supplier of the Syrian opposition.
  • fishingcomicfishingcomic Senior Member Posts: 26,541 Senior Member
    EdB wrote: »
    Starting in 2011, the U.S. supplied arms to Syrian rebels through Al Qaeda in Libya.

    Think how ridiculous that sounds.
    'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'" Ronald Reagan
  • EdBEdB Senior Member Posts: 3,084 Senior Member
    Except that it's true.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    Oh, that we could prove that, Ed. Obama would be out on his **** so fast even Trump's head would be spinning.
  • flytrapflytrap Banned Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    In the meantime Ed (Sancho Panza)B, we have windmills that need jousting at.
  • jbillyjbilly Senior Member Posts: 5,963 Senior Member
    Think how ridiculous that sounds.

    Hahahaha. Good luck with that.

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